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Beware of geeks bearing gifts

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Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#21

Post by achalkley »

StavrosK wrote: post #18

Sorry, do we know that you'll only be able to get online if you only have a Google account? I haven't heard anything like that, and if, as I suspect, nothing hints that this will happen, then this is much gnashing of teeth about nothing. If Google does require a Google account to get online, then, okay, it's not as selfless as before, but it's still internet access where people had none before. The possibility of acc…

What is a "Google Account"? It's a fuzzy thing - they track you and sell you without a log in or not.

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#22

Post by StavrosK »

achalkley wrote: post #21
StavrosK wrote: post #18

Sorry, do we know that you'll only be able to get online if you only have a Google account? I haven't heard anything like that, and if, as I suspect, nothing hints that this will happen, then this is much gnashing of teeth about nothing. If Google does require a Google account to get online, then, okay, it's not as selfless as before, but it's still internet access where people had none before. The possibility of acc…

What is a "Google Account"? It's a fuzzy thing - they track you and sell you without a log in or not.

Great, so completely free internet, with exactly as many strings attached as everyone else gets, even though they don't get theirs from Google. I don't see why people are complaining. Getting tracked is an issue completely orthogonal to the internet access Google is trying to give people.

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#23

Post by achalkley »

StavrosK wrote: post #22
achalkley wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "Google Account"? It's a fuzzy thing - they track you and sell you without a log in or not.

Great, so completely free internet, with exactly as many strings attached as everyone else gets, even though they don't get theirs from Google. I don't see why people are complaining. Getting tracked is an issue completely orthogonal to the internet access Google is trying to give people.

You're telling me that you don't think every HTTP request could be tracked by Google? Someone not on Loon wouldn't have that.

Could Google provide free internet without tracking people?

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#24

Post by StavrosK »

achalkley wrote: post #23
StavrosK wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, so completely free internet, with exactly as many strings attached as everyone else gets, even though they don't get theirs from Google. I don't see why people are complaining. Getting tracked is an issue completely orthogonal to the internet access Google is trying to give people.

You're telling me that you don't think every HTTP request could be tracked by Google? Someone not on Loon wouldn't have that. Could Google provide free internet without tracking people?

I'm sure it's possible. I don't think NSA-style tracking of all requests would be in Google's best interest, as it wouldn't do wonders for their image.

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#25

Post by raverbashing »

Here's one thing about "complementary services".

"Smart companies try to commoditize their products' complements." http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/StrategyLetterV.html

Yes, Google and Facebook have their agenda, but that's their object, to make an internet connection as a commodity as possible.

In the same way auto companies want a gas station in every corner (and the opposite, gas companies want cars to be popular)

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#26

Post by drcongo »

pearkes wrote: post #14

> What Facebook and Google have done is discovered a village with no water and they plan to bring them cheap Coke to buy when—if their motives were truly honorable—there is another glaringly obvious option: you could teach them to build a well. Funny you should mention Coke. It turns out that these businesses desiring profits can pretty efficiently solve or make improvement to problems, like distribution, in places l…

Funnily enough, Coke are already draining the wells of villages that do have them. http://www.theguardian.com/money/2006/mar/19/business.india1

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#27

Post by jaegerpicker »

Bah! Who cares who if Facebook or Google makes money if it's a net win for everyone. They make money but those using the service learn how to use the internet and a few learn more then that. Those few then figure out how to build their own ISP. It's a conversation and a conservation has to have two sides. This provides a reason for FB and Google to start the conversation. It's a rising tide that lifts everyones boats. Sure it's optimistic of me and maybe those that use FB's internet never rise above that but I doubt it and it's better than nothing.

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#28

Post by dylangs1030 »

achalkley wrote: post #17
VMG wrote: post #16

Life is not zero-sum. Just because big corporations gain, doesn't mean you have to lose. And please, stop with the slavery metaphor. It's offensive. There are actual slaves in Africa that would love the serfdom of targeted ads.

When the internet is being used as a "right" or commodity like food and your digital persona, which you don't "own", is being used to profit someone else, and your "right" to it is revoked if you choose to "own" it, the metaphor is apt.

No, it's not apt at all. When your digital self allows for your physical self to be whipped, starved, or forced to mate in the name of profit, it will be apt.

Sure, it's not all rainbows and unicorns. But let's not weaken our arguments with ludicrous hyperbole.

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#29

Post by Yzupnick »

pearkes wrote: post #14

> What Facebook and Google have done is discovered a village with no water and they plan to bring them cheap Coke to buy when—if their motives were truly honorable—there is another glaringly obvious option: you could teach them to build a well. Funny you should mention Coke. It turns out that these businesses desiring profits can pretty efficiently solve or make improvement to problems, like distribution, in places l…

Here is a TED talk from Melinda French Gates talking about exactly this: http://www.ted.com/talks/melinda_french_gates_what_nonprofit...

Re: Beware of geeks bearing gifts

#30

Post by achalkley »

StavrosK wrote: post #24
achalkley wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're telling me that you don't think every HTTP request could be tracked by Google? Someone not on Loon wouldn't have that. Could Google provide free internet without tracking people?

I'm sure it's possible. I don't think NSA-style tracking of all requests would be in Google's best interest, as it wouldn't do wonders for their image.

They don't care about their image. They care if they get locked up if they don't comply.
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