Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

pubs.acs.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 67 posts

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#21

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tomhschmidt wrote: post #16
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around Beijing, the problem is (1) use of coal as fuel with outdated poorly maintained energy producing equipment, (2) use of coal directly by peasants in the winter to keep warm (in Hebei), and (3) lots of cars with poor fuel quality (even if the emissions equipment is working, they aren't given the right quality of fuel). The solutions are quite simple: upgrade the equipment, get farmers to use natural gas for warm…

I prefer to blame 串儿 and excessive 中南海 smokers

Blaming the Chuan (outdoor BBQ) vendors is quite funny; I feel like the officials are trying to deflect blame for their black Audi's running on crappy fuel.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#22

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rdl wrote: post #12
veidr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not any time soon, because at present that would mean going to war with China. I live in Tokyo, which is obviously a lot closer to China than the Bay Area is, and here we have PM 2.5 pollution reports on the news a lot like the regular weather report. On the worst days I throw on a 3M respirator[1] before I ride my bike across town, which makes me look like a character from some kind of post-apocalypse video…

I wonder if this will raise the value of land in Western China (or west of China), out of the pollution stream.

Even Kunming has pollution that is considered bad (though much better than east China). I don't think the environment gets much better in Kazakhstan, they are still industrializing. Once you hit Iran, it is almost as bad as China.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#23

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hkmurakami wrote: post #18
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around Beijing, the problem is (1) use of coal as fuel with outdated poorly maintained energy producing equipment, (2) use of coal directly by peasants in the winter to keep warm (in Hebei), and (3) lots of cars with poor fuel quality (even if the emissions equipment is working, they aren't given the right quality of fuel). The solutions are quite simple: upgrade the equipment, get farmers to use natural gas for warm…

and with China's huge investments in Mongolian coal mines, it's not about to get much better any time soon :(

Depends on (a) the quality of the coal (chinese coal tends to be quite bad, American coal is much cleaner) and the quality of the emissions equipment in whatever is burning the coal (Chinese environment regulations are bad, plant owners tend to skim and use outdated equipment).

Compare to the US or Germany, where coal is still heavily used, but the environmental impact is much reduced.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#24

Post by abm82 »

ars wrote: post #14
Uchikoma wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The low hanging fruit is always getting others doing something. I for myself see the low hanging fruits with the things I can do or influence.

Honestly there isn't much you can do. Most pollution is industrial, and most industrial pollution is not in the US. Recycling just causes more pollution, so that doesn't help. You can turn lights off and install CFL's, but the difference is tiny. Riding a bike vs driving actually causes more pollution (because farms make lots of pollution) [unless you replace exercise you anyway do with bike riding]. Coal burning in…

Emissions per capita in China are well under half of those in the US so something doesn't add up about your post.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#25

Post by ars »

abm82 wrote: post #24
ars wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly there isn't much you can do. Most pollution is industrial, and most industrial pollution is not in the US. Recycling just causes more pollution, so that doesn't help. You can turn lights off and install CFL's, but the difference is tiny. Riding a bike vs driving actually causes more pollution (because farms make lots of pollution) [unless you replace exercise you anyway do with bike riding]. Coal burning in…

Emissions per capita in China are well under half of those in the US so something doesn't add up about your post.

Emissions of pollution or emissions of CO2?

Plus China has a LOT of people, and a TON of them are rural and very poor - it's not exactly the preferred way to reduce emissions (of any kind).

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#26

Post by po »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17

This is an article from 2008 about dust storms from the Gobi travelling across the Pacific; this isn't the main pollution problem in China today. The dust coming in from the Gobi was a result of deforestation and poor land management policies, which were pretty much cleaned up for the Olympics and have remained quite fixed. We haven't had a real dust storm in Beijing since early 2008, I think, and definitely not one…

That dust storm earlier this year certainly did turn the sky yellow at my place in Tokyo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/poswald/8544202652/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/poswald/8544418994/

It was one of the strangest weather phenomenons: it came and went within a few hours.

Re: 29% of Bay Area's particulate air pollution comes from across the Pacific (2010)

#28

Post by seanmcdirmid »

po wrote: post #26
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17

This is an article from 2008 about dust storms from the Gobi travelling across the Pacific; this isn't the main pollution problem in China today. The dust coming in from the Gobi was a result of deforestation and poor land management policies, which were pretty much cleaned up for the Olympics and have remained quite fixed. We haven't had a real dust storm in Beijing since early 2008, I think, and definitely not one…

That dust storm earlier this year certainly did turn the sky yellow at my place in Tokyo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/poswald/8544202652/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/poswald/8544418994/ It was one of the strangest weather phenomenons: it came and went within a few hours.

That is quite typical of a dust storm actually. It is only on for an hour or so then it blows itself out. Anyways, I haven't seen one of those since 2008, though it was quite bad in March, maybe we just avoided the yellow skies while Tokyo didn't?
Post reply on HN