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Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

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131–140 of 372 posts

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#131
When are people going to start appreciating the biology of the human species for the miracle that it is? I'm not talking faith-based logic here ... but consider for a moment that the placebo effect exists.

That's it. Game over for nutrition science.

You can convince someone's mind to change physical attributes of their body using psychology.

Who's to say this guy's brain wasn't really excited about the prospect of a new diet that he was told by a really smart dude was going to make him more productive and healthier? Hook, line, sinker.

This also doesn't address any of the social rituals associated with food. Personally, for me, breakfast is the only meal that is removable, but that's because I'm not a morning person. I telecommute and have a family. Sitting down to lunch with my kids and wife (or just wife, joy when the kiddos are in school), is a great break in my day.

And dinner ... don't even get me started. I love sitting down to dinner. Makes me really just feel sorry for single folks whose lives revolve around productivity to such an extent.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#132
So, I see a lot of people excited about this Soylent stuff here and that's great but to those that actually excited by this and are very interested in replacing all your meals and "don't understand what the big deal is about food, other than the not dying part" ... do you all expect anyone to take you seriously as human beings? I mean that in the most sincere way possible. It just looks so ridiculous and honestly, somewhat pretentious: "Oh I would never waste my time with food." Maybe I'm the crazy one.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#133
post #2

I just posted this to Tim's Blog: --------------------- It seems probable that soylent is better than much of the manufactured food on the market. It also seems unlikely that soylent is better than quality whole food. I take Nassim Taleb's approach. We don’t know what we don’t know about food. I’d like to address two of Shane’s points. I'm listing the objections Shane raises, then his reply: Shane's first point: Obje…

>One additional problem of soylent: the designers assume we need a steady inejection of the same macronutrients every time we eat. We know positively that this is false. Bodybuilders have long known that carbohydrates are more effective after a workout. As with increased protein after a workout.

We don't "know" this. There is strong anecdotal evidence showing that it MIGHT be true. But Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, and others (including those in the IF community) dispute this claim.

I would caution a rebuttal to what we "don't know" with Soylent with what "we know" which may not even be true.

As for my unsolicited opinion, who gives a shit if they make it and people eat it. Tim Ferriss is usually a shill for ridiculous products and information (like his Four Hour Anything crap), but he makes good points about Soylent needing to rebrand and change how they advertise. You can't just make a bunch of claims that it's all the body needs because it fits XYZ macronutrient panels (even though they are very, VERY likely correct - the laws of physics don't get trumped by biology, sorry) for the simple reason that the FDA will wield the banhammer with extreme prejudice.

But no one is being coerced to use the stuff, so who cares?

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#134

I'm all for people having the freedom to eat whatever they want and I really like the quantified self aspect of seeing how diet affects how they feel and metrics of health, but I have to say the author grossly does not understand the medical tests he had done and misinterprets the data. I'm not going to comment on the drink, but rather on his misunderstanding of medicine. First, EGFR is not "Epidermal Growth Factor R…

Dexa scan is used to measure body composition in this case.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#135
This soylent discussion that I constantly see on HN is what happens when computer nerds who know nothing about nutrition (and a couple who do) talk about health.

This guy is going to make a ton of money but I think that people should be thinking, "Do I really want to live a life where I don't have time for food or I don't enjoy preparing and eating it".

Personally I think it is kind of sad and hope in the future that 'Eating' doesn't become what 'face-to-face communication' or 'playing outside' has become today.....

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#136
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your aim is for improved mental function, more energy, less health problems, etc., you don't need to know how to interpret any obscure tests. You'll know. Perception is different from reality, as exemplified by an Apple anecdote: http://www.asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html We’ve done a cool $50 million of R & D on the Apple Human Interface. We discovered, among other things, two pertinent facts: - Test s…

No doubt people can misjudge things. With health changes, I think it is often easier to see changes in the negative direction, like the author when he stopped the soylent trial. If the changes are great enough in magnitude to be obvious, then you know you're on to something. Also, measures like weight and computer mental agility tests can be quite reliable if you are consistent in your testing, and they aren't subjec…

> then you know you're on to something

No, no you don't. That's the whole point of doing scientific experiments. Your brain is very, very, extremely bad at judging objectively. Any subjective "test" is simply no test at all.

> Also, numbers like weight and computer mental agility tests also can be quite reliable if you are consistent in your testing...

That's a pretty big 'if', plus a 'can' and a 'quite'.

> ...and they aren't subject to misinterpretation or wishful thinking

That's the whole point of the OT in this discussion thread. They very much clearly are subject to misinterpretation. A zillion factors can impact weight and "mental agility".

People aren't lab rats because they don't live in labs and aren't rats.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#137
post #6

Soylent aside, im amazed at how terrible his traditional normal days meal is? I mean hes eating a processed breakfast subsitute in the morning, take away mexican food with a soft drink for lunch and more take away for dinner. You don't need to be a nutritionist to know thats going to have a terrible impact on his life later down the track. Postnote: Now that Ive read the whole article, I wonder if all the benefits he…

Is a protien shake for breakfast really that bad? I have not been able to find a breakfast food that's quick, tastes ok, and isn't high in carbs.

Steak and eggs. Quick, tasty, high in protein, low in carbs. Considered a traditional breakfast.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the big deal? What this guy is eating already is definitely above average in quality. A Chipotle burrito bol (fresh whole ingredients, sans tortilla) is a legit meal. Other than dental impacts from the carbonation, health hysteria about diet soda and aspartame has been debunked. I don't know about the take-out Thai, but at least it's real food and not some preservative-laden packaged food product from the groc…

Above average in quality? He was taking in nearly twice the daily recommended intake of sodium [1] and nearly all of his self reported vitamin/mineral intake was about 1/3 of the daily recommended levels. [1] http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsSodium/

Sodium is a problem for some people, but it's also not a problem for some people. It's certainly something to pay attention to, but probably not as important as the many other important things to pay attention to, unless his blood pressure is affected by sodium and it's already too high.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#139
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious. Specifically about what you think Soylent offers that the wide variety of MRPs rhat have been on the market dor decades don't. Is it the concept of literally replacing all of your meals? To me it seems that there are dozens of existing MRPs that beat Soylent on price, flavor, and quality. But I have rarely seen any manufacturer claim that you can replace every meal with their product, and when they do it…

The main difference for me between Soylent and the other options on the market is the specific goals of the products. There are a variety of other options, but as you said, the majority aren't intended as replacements for your entire diet (those ones also tend to beat Soylent on flavor only by being chock full of sugar). There are a few that are complete diet replacements, mostly used for medical purposes, but the fa…

> Soylent's different target market

What exactly is Soylent's target market? 20-30 something men?

As much as I love the idea of a meal replacement, the idea of a one-formula-for-all Soylent marketed as a near-entire meal replacement is kind of disturbing. I really hope the Soylent team figure things out soon by coming out with multiple formulas, or at least make it really clear who they're targeting first.

You don't have to even reach for a patient with special dietary requirements to realize the problem. For years I had to ensure I either took an iron supplement or got enough iron through my diet due to iron deficiency anemia from menstruation - a problem discovered only after I passed out in the middle of the street one morning. Given that I love iron-rich foods and that I chalked up the rest of the symptoms to stress, imagine my surprise. My postmenopausal mother consumes an absurd amount of calcium daily because that's one thing the female body needs after menopause. My father is getting old and his eye doctor tells him to consume eye vitamins now to reduce his risk of AMD (age related macular degeneration - one of the largest causes of vision loss). These three examples from my immediate family. Half the world's population will menstruate at some point, or will stop doing so. Even more will eventually get old. You can see where I'm trying to go with this.

I would probably be a lot more relaxed about this and put Soylent on the same level as my Carnation Breakfast Essentials if it's only supposed to replace a small part of what you eat, but while people are wholeheartedly advertising this as a complete meal replacement and while all the (so far public) test subjects seem to be 20-30 something men... I'll be nervous about it and I'll hold it to a higher standard. (And no, none of my disapproval of Soylent means I approve of crappy diets of fast food and sugary foods. Maybe some people will end up eating healthier with Soylent compared to their old diet, which would be great, but just don't market it like it's for everyone to replace nearly all their meals with IMO.)

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#140
post #84

I'm all for people having the freedom to eat whatever they want and I really like the quantified self aspect of seeing how diet affects how they feel and metrics of health, but I have to say the author grossly does not understand the medical tests he had done and misinterprets the data. I'm not going to comment on the drink, but rather on his misunderstanding of medicine. First, EGFR is not "Epidermal Growth Factor R…

Nice job missing the forest but spotting a few trees. I see some promising initial signs given the short duration of the trial. Imagine if there was a new drug that gave the mental benefits the guy reported after two weeks of use and saved you money too. It would be front page news. The guy doesn't claim to be a medical expert, he just did his best to report the results of a bunch of miscellaneous tests that were sug…

>Imagine if there was a new drug that gave the mental benefits the guy reported after two weeks of use and saved you money too.

I found this drug that makes me feel way relaxed and totally content with the world. I don't do anything while on the drug, 'cause life's great just sitting here on the couch. As a consequence of sitting on my couch enjoying my great life, I don't spend any money, so I'm totally saving compared to before I took this drug. Pass the joint, man.

I'm legitimately not sure if your argument in this thread is serious. You are basically recommending we throw out any pretensions of objectivity or science or knowledge in favor of "do what you feel".

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