Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks • Hacker News Board

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#51

Post by jacques_chester » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:55 AM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #41

alphaoverlord wrote: post #9

I'm all for people having the freedom to eat whatever they want and I really like the quantified self aspect of seeing how diet affects how they feel and metrics of health, but I have to say the author grossly does not understand the medical tests he had done and misinterprets the data. I'm not going to comment on the drink, but rather on his misunderstanding of medicine. First, EGFR is not "Epidermal Growth Factor R…

One of the best parts about this whole Soylent debacle is getting to watch well-known people make complete fools of themselves by commenting on things that they clearly know absolutely nothing about, but still feel like they have the right to make authoritative statements on.

Funnily enough, that's the whole pitch for Soylent. "I'm just a smart guy with a fresh pair of eyes who spent a few weekends reading undergrad textbooks and skimming pubmed".

Not: "we're a large company with deeply-interested professionals who've made this their life's work, our own multi-million dollar labs and decades of accumulated experience in the development, testing, validation and manufacture of temporary food substitutes". Because that's boooorrrrinnnng.

Basically it's getting buzz because of novelty (to people who didn't know there were existing products) and homophily (Rhinehart is "one of us").

The actual product is at this point nearly completely tangential to the marketing.

It's a bit like a dietitian bursting in and saying "I've invented a new thing, I call it 'computertalk'. What you do is you 'type' your 'instructions' into your computer. It's going to change everything, you won't need programmers any more!"

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#52

Post by graeme » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:55 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #21

graeme wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read Tim's comments at the bottom? He's hardly endorsing Soylent. From the post: ------------------ Among the Soylent claims Shane outlined, there are the below. I’ve added my comments: Soylent provides all the energy and nutrients the body needs. [TIM: I'm not convinced Soylent can prove this.] The body can absorb all the nutrients Soylent provides. [TIM: I'm not convinced Soylent can prove this.] Soylent ma…

No, he's just featuring it on his blog to draw traffic. It's the equivalent of the mainstream media staple 'Could X help you lose weight, avoid cancer, and enjoy better sex?'

I don't understand your criticism. Virtually every post that hits the HN front page was designed to draw traffic.

If you've followed Tim Ferriss, it's clear this is something he'd be interested in. His first company was a sports supplement manufacturer, and he's written two books that touch on nutrition.

I don't see this as a shallow post aimed at promoting a product. Did you even read it?

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#53

Post by jimbokun » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:57 AM UTC

damian2000 wrote: post #36

How different is Soylent from some existing protein shake products (eg. muscle milk)? these also contain fats, carbs, protein and vitamins.

What's the benefit of Muscle Milk over the same amount of Cow Milk? Is there some science demonstrating Muscle Milk is better?

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#54

Post by Volpe » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:58 AM UTC

md224 wrote: post #38

bsbechtel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That’s not a good reason to not try to innovate. Innovation only really works if you're solving a problem. I don't really see much of a problem with our food/nutrition system as is. Yes, there are parts of the world where people are starving, so maybe there is an application for this there, but if the aim is to test this product out in the Bay Area, I don't really see it going anywhere. I could be wrong, but that's…

I'll just say this: I hate cooking, and ordering delivery every night, while easy, isn't ideal (cost, etc.). Eating delicious, real food every once in a while is a great treat, but why the hell do I have to put so much energy into this ritual of choosing/preparing/acquiring meals every single day of my life ? Sometimes I just don't want to be hungry, and I don't really care how I get not-hungry. I'm withholding judge…

But that problem you are describing is solved.

There are meal replacement shakes on the market already. There is fast food (cheap!) there are hot dog stands...

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#55

Post by jacques_chester » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 2:59 AM UTC

mparlane wrote: post #29

TillE wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the target market is lazy people who don't like food. And let's be honest, nearly everyone likes real food. Keto works great for weight loss, and moderation is usually sufficient for a healthy maintenance diet. Loaded with carbohydrates as it is, Soylent is particularly uninteresting for anyone trying to reduce body fat.

A lot of things were invented for "lazy" people so they could save time to do other more important things. Like my electric razor, I have my safety razor too, but it's so much faster to use my electric. A coworker has a beard so he can save 5 minutes in the morning, is it lazy to want time to do other things?

> A lot of things were invented for "lazy" people so they could save time to do other more important things.

Those things were invented to avoid displeasure. Most people find eating pleasurable, it's something they actively seek to do.

It's like saying "guys, I've invented a way to have children without that boring orgasm nonsense".

For some small segment of the population, that is the best news ever. But I don't seeing it being a break-out hit with the general public.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#56

Post by jfb » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 3:00 AM UTC

tocomment wrote: post #14

cup wrote: post #6

Soylent aside, im amazed at how terrible his traditional normal days meal is? I mean hes eating a processed breakfast subsitute in the morning, take away mexican food with a soft drink for lunch and more take away for dinner. You don't need to be a nutritionist to know thats going to have a terrible impact on his life later down the track. Postnote: Now that Ive read the whole article, I wonder if all the benefits he…

Is a protien shake for breakfast really that bad? I have not been able to find a breakfast food that's quick, tastes ok, and isn't high in carbs.

Eggs don't take very long.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#57

Post by speeder » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 3:00 AM UTC

cup wrote: post #6

Soylent aside, im amazed at how terrible his traditional normal days meal is? I mean hes eating a processed breakfast subsitute in the morning, take away mexican food with a soft drink for lunch and more take away for dinner. You don't need to be a nutritionist to know thats going to have a terrible impact on his life later down the track. Postnote: Now that Ive read the whole article, I wonder if all the benefits he…

I was bothered by that too.

I think soylent would have a hard time beating my diet WHEN I eat correctly (some recent issues resulted into me drifting far from my normal diet, but now I am returning to it again).

My normal diet,

breakfast: toast, cheese, chinese tea (I like all colors) or matte tea (it remembers black tea, but with a less harsh taste and less caffeine)

lunch: vegetables and proteins (meat, cheese, sashimi, whatever..)

dinner: proteins (usually, fish)

and then you can sprinkle some fruit and cereal bars during the day.

When I did this diet for the first time (while ignoring my nutriotionist and doctors) my weight plunged from 125 to 100, most of that in fat, my cholesterol dropped from the dangerously high 270 to 170, and several other stuff in my blood tests that were unhealthy got fixed.

I see here lots of "healthy" people like the author, that avoid meat because it is supposed to be "healthy" that are quite unhealthy. Well, several of them are not obese, but they are obviously weak and have nutrition issues.

I met REALLY FEW non-cow eaters, vegetarians and vegans that really knew what they were doing...

(by the way, the advice that I ignored from my medics was eat more grains, like rice, and avoid fatty foods, specially red meat... I did exact the opposite and it worked, while when I followed their advice strictly I got fatter, to me it is clear that even the fat in the meat is useful and important for the body)

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#58

Post by plainOldText » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 3:00 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #15

alphaoverlord wrote: post #9

I'm all for people having the freedom to eat whatever they want and I really like the quantified self aspect of seeing how diet affects how they feel and metrics of health, but I have to say the author grossly does not understand the medical tests he had done and misinterprets the data. I'm not going to comment on the drink, but rather on his misunderstanding of medicine. First, EGFR is not "Epidermal Growth Factor R…

Comments like this are why I read HN, and why it's often so valuable to read the comments before the article. Thanks for sharing your insights.

I think it's even better to read the comments after reading the article. Here's a possible flow:

1. Read the article

2. Analyze. Establish your position/beliefs

3. Read the comments

4. Adjust your beliefs in the light of new evidence

:)

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#59

Post by jurassic » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 3:01 AM UTC

cup wrote: post #6

Soylent aside, im amazed at how terrible his traditional normal days meal is? I mean hes eating a processed breakfast subsitute in the morning, take away mexican food with a soft drink for lunch and more take away for dinner. You don't need to be a nutritionist to know thats going to have a terrible impact on his life later down the track. Postnote: Now that Ive read the whole article, I wonder if all the benefits he…

What's the big deal? What this guy is eating already is definitely above average in quality. A Chipotle burrito bol (fresh whole ingredients, sans tortilla) is a legit meal. Other than dental impacts from the carbonation, health hysteria about diet soda and aspartame has been debunked. I don't know about the take-out Thai, but at least it's real food and not some preservative-laden packaged food product from the grocery store. Not everybody has 5 hours a day or a stay-at-home wife to cook their Whole Foods organic produce into a masterpiece of nutrition.

Re: Soylent: What Happened When I Stopped Eating For 2 Weeks

#60

Post by jacques_chester » Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 3:05 AM UTC

mortenjorck wrote: post #43

mparlane wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of things were invented for "lazy" people so they could save time to do other more important things. Like my electric razor, I have my safety razor too, but it's so much faster to use my electric. A coworker has a beard so he can save 5 minutes in the morning, is it lazy to want time to do other things?

This to me is the real draw of Soylent: Not subsisting on it for weeks at a time, but rather using it as a "DVR for eating." In this way, Soylent could actually improve one's enjoyment of food by allowing one to focus on eating well only when time allows. Imagine not having to eat most of the time, but always having two hours set aside every Wednesday night to cook a feast.

Or you could try different foods. There are probably more distinct dishes to try than can be tasted in a standard human lifetime. Or enough that you might be forced, say, to try something twice in your entire life. Oh noes.

And it goes on. Perhaps you really enjoy Caesar salad. I know I do. When I am trialling a new place I will often order the Caesar salad as a reasonably reliable proxy for the quality of the kitchen, because it is a finicky thing to put together and requires the ingredients to be fresh and properly balanced.

Over-oily croutons? Bzzt. Stale cos leaves? Bzzt. Swimming in commercial dressing? Bzzt.

So if you have a particular favourite dish, you can enjoy the excitement of discovering the different ways different chefs can approach it. Consider the humble BBQ rib. There are a few schools of thought on the simple question of how to apply heat. And then you get into dry rub and wet rub, what herbs, what spices, what order they're applied ... the variety and possibilities are endless. Truly endless.

It's like wandering into the library and saying "well, I guess I could walk around the stacks and try the different books that catch my eye. Or I could stare at the 'this page intentionally left blank' in that dot matrix printer manual most days for the rest of my life."