India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear • Hacker News Board

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#21

Post by solistice » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:09 PM UTC

gnufied wrote: post #10

The problem I think is - The people at lowest rung of our society have very little moral values. The most important thing is to survive. Sure occasionally you meet a auto-rickshaw driver who did not try to charge you more, but by and large every one of them will try to take as much as they can. I have been with some of the poor people (heck I come from poor background) of this country, took a trip in transport truck…

India's Gini Coefficient (Income inequality) is smaller than that of the US and Switzerland, both democracies.

It might however be true that the difference between the middle class and the poor is significantly higher.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#22

Post by codereflection » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

This is just indescribably terrible, I feel awful for women who have endured this torture.

As I was reading the article I couldn't help but think, "This woman is going to end up with PTSD", and sure enough she did. :(

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#23

Post by gnufied » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:13 PM UTC

HoratioWarlock wrote: post #17

gnufied wrote: post #10

The problem I think is - The people at lowest rung of our society have very little moral values. The most important thing is to survive. Sure occasionally you meet a auto-rickshaw driver who did not try to charge you more, but by and large every one of them will try to take as much as they can. I have been with some of the poor people (heck I come from poor background) of this country, took a trip in transport truck…

I read a blame-Indian-poor comment like this on every HN article about India. I recall one guy upbraiding the poor for public defecation. Because of low morals. As if lack of sewage infrastructure had nothing to do with the fact that people s&*# in the street in India. It's poor morals. What makes your comment most remarkable, however, is that the linked article says almost nothing about class, or economic developmen…

I have tried answering some of it below. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6239844

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#24

Post by thisisnotclear » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:13 PM UTC

HoratioWarlock wrote: post #17

gnufied wrote: post #10

The problem I think is - The people at lowest rung of our society have very little moral values. The most important thing is to survive. Sure occasionally you meet a auto-rickshaw driver who did not try to charge you more, but by and large every one of them will try to take as much as they can. I have been with some of the poor people (heck I come from poor background) of this country, took a trip in transport truck…

I read a blame-Indian-poor comment like this on every HN article about India. I recall one guy upbraiding the poor for public defecation. Because of low morals. As if lack of sewage infrastructure had nothing to do with the fact that people s&*# in the street in India. It's poor morals. What makes your comment most remarkable, however, is that the linked article says almost nothing about class, or economic developmen…

well as an indian it saddens me to say that i agree with you. also I believe that middle class and rich are the most misogynist among indians. There is no morality that works in india accept "I can get away with this because I have money and power to do so". I think that world will face a lot of problems integrating india and indians in near future.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#25

Post by solistice » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:15 PM UTC

hankcharles wrote: post #14

gnufied wrote: post #10

The problem I think is - The people at lowest rung of our society have very little moral values. The most important thing is to survive. Sure occasionally you meet a auto-rickshaw driver who did not try to charge you more, but by and large every one of them will try to take as much as they can. I have been with some of the poor people (heck I come from poor background) of this country, took a trip in transport truck…

I don't understand your logic, or what democracy has to do with the matter. I am no expert on India, but I spent enough time there to observe a clear and disturbing trend in male behavior and I have spent enough time in other - developed and developing - countries to have appropriate context for comparison. An easy place to start would be China, which exhibits some similar demographic issues, but you really never com…

I completely agree with you on China. I've had encounters which were completely harmless there, but could have taken a sour turn in Germany. Even the homeless are remarkably civil. There are certain areas you should stay out of as a tourist, but everywhere else seems almost laughably safe.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#26

Post by jacalata » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:18 PM UTC

gnufied wrote: post #19

hankcharles wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your logic, or what democracy has to do with the matter. I am no expert on India, but I spent enough time there to observe a clear and disturbing trend in male behavior and I have spent enough time in other - developed and developing - countries to have appropriate context for comparison. An easy place to start would be China, which exhibits some similar demographic issues, but you really never com…

There are two problems: 1. Crime against women is specially high. Why is it high? Because - wheels of justice turn really slowly here and perpetrator has a good chance of escaping without punishment. From what I hear, Justice (or sometimes lack of it) is swift in China. That itself is a great deterrent. 2.If you go through all the recent rape cases reported in media, perpetrators are almost always - mostly uneducated…

And isn't it possible that the rich rapists actually can get away with it, and that's why you don't see their names in the media?

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#27

Post by grannyg00se » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:19 PM UTC

Why don't we hear this more often? I often hear stores about people traveling to India but I've never heard of this level of incessant public abuse.

And what about the people who were warning her to dress conservatively and not make eye contact? Did they know the extent of the abuse she was about to endure? Did they deliberately downplay it for some reason? Or did she experience unusually horrific treatment because of her appearance?

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#28

Post by solistice » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:20 PM UTC

hankcharles wrote: post #11

having recently traveled in India for three weeks, I heard remarkably similar accounts all too frequently from groups of women travelers. Even as a man, I was approached for sex several times while out running. It was gross. Having traveled a fair amount, I have never personally experienced behavior consistently this revolting in other countries. The behavior of Indian men was easily the most dissappointing part of m…

Wait, were you approached by other men on the street soliciting sex?

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#29

Post by hankcharles » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:22 PM UTC

gnufied wrote: post #19

hankcharles wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your logic, or what democracy has to do with the matter. I am no expert on India, but I spent enough time there to observe a clear and disturbing trend in male behavior and I have spent enough time in other - developed and developing - countries to have appropriate context for comparison. An easy place to start would be China, which exhibits some similar demographic issues, but you really never com…

There are two problems: 1. Crime against women is specially high. Why is it high? Because - wheels of justice turn really slowly here and perpetrator has a good chance of escaping without punishment. From what I hear, Justice (or sometimes lack of it) is swift in China. That itself is a great deterrent. 2.If you go through all the recent rape cases reported in media, perpetrators are almost always - mostly uneducated…

Everything you mention in problem 2 is likely true, but these are generally true in most countries around the world, regardless of phase of development: in any country most crime results from the poor or uneducated because they have an impetus for wanting to do it, and ultimately believing they can get away with it.

Regarding problem 1 this might make sense if crime (violent, in particular) was notably higher in India than in other countries with similar income levels, but I do not think that is the case - in fact I would guess it is on the whole on the lower end. Yet women do seem to be heavily objectified ( as pleasure). This is what I found so surprising and upsetting while I was in India.

Re: India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear

#30

Post by Tichy » Mon, Aug 19, 2013, 9:23 PM UTC

What I don't understand is why anybody would think of India as a traveler's paradise? Because everything is cheap for a western person? Does one need a huge amount of ignorance to enjoy traveling among hordes of poor people? (Real question - I've never done such a thing)