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Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

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Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#151

Post by htaunay »

GFischer wrote: post #120
gxs wrote: post #7

Amazing, perspective is everything. I don't deny that college kids are being taken advantage of. Graduating from a small liberal arts college in South Dakota that no one's ever heard of with a degree is Culture Studies and 80k in debt really is a rip off. The flipside of this coin however is someone like me. My parents are immigrants and I was the first to go to school. To my parents, the fact that someone would be e…

"In some countries, you don't even have the OPTION to take out a loan to go to school" In some countries, like mine (Uruguay) university-level education is free :) (though postgraduate studies are paid). I think China is the biggest example of free university education. EDIT: I was wrong, about U$ 2000/year and rising apparently. At least our bazillion psychologists and communication majors (equivalent to the dreaded…

Brazil is missing from that list. BTW, here the public schools are the best (universities that is, public basic education is horrible).

However, the rich still benefit from the system. Here's how it works:

1) Kids with money go to the best prep-schools and get in the public universities through hard entrance exams. 2) Kids that can't get in the public system, but still have money, can pay for medium-level education. 3) Kids with no money due to poor basic education can't get into a public university and can't afford a private alternative.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#152

Post by danielweber »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #143
danielweber wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

such action would become commonplace, a rite of passage at graduation Good. Then people will stop lending students tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Then schools will lower their prices.

> Then people will stop lending students tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars... Let's make your comment a little more accurate: Then the federal government, which is responsible for ~85% of the student loan market, will have to stop lending students tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, and there will be no end to the cries that millions of young Americans are being denied a college education by well-to-do p…

Maybe for a year. After that schools will lower costs and everyone will be better off. Well, except for the school administrators and the construction people who build new stuff for them.

You don't make society's huge education bills go away just because the government is paying for them.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#153

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

dragonwriter wrote: post #145
wayne_h wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was caused by government unintended consequences.... Some doctors graduated from med school with $100ks in loans. So they immediately filed for bankruptcy and cleared the debt. After a few years of work they were back in the bucks and debt-free. The loan industry had congress write some new laws (was it 2008 ish?). The package clamped down on debt-collectors calling at all hours. It also eliminated clearing coll…

I don't see the unintended consequences: financial companies asked Congress to write a law for the express purpose of insulating those companies from risk and increasing their profits and the results were that (1) borrowers couldn't discharge debts in bankruptcy, making the financial services companies more money, and (2) increased profitability led to more loans, helping drive up tuition costs increasing the average…

You do realize that ~85% of the student loan debt outstanding - which amounts to more than $800 million - belongs to the federal government, right?

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#154

Post by megaframe »

My feeling is we should put the burden on the Colleges or the Loan providers. Make it so if the student fails to graduate, or graduate and cannot get a job in their field they're forced to pay the loan or at least the loan interest. Their incentive would then become to avoid loosing money and only give out loans of appropriate sizes to people who's college degree has a high probability of investment return.

The way it's setup now, the only person who's invested in having a high investment return is the student who usually can't grasp the concept of a loan this large and what it means for their future.

Their's probably some balance between this all out harsh approach and what we have now to allow for smaller loans with high risk so students can attend in state universities without bankrupting the university, but an incentive change is needed.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#155

Post by Balgair »

CoachRufus87 wrote: post #110
Balgair wrote: post #88

My brother now works at a University of California school. He says that the professors are in on the con-game; they know that the kids know that this is all a bubble. Trouble is, everyone involved is tied to the mast. The admins can't find other work for this kind of money, the profs have tenure, the grad students can only otherwise work slinging dope or burgers, and the undergrads have even worse prospects than the…

The problem w/ MOOCs are that many students lack the discipline to successfully finish the class. A blended approach (classroom + online) is the best combination, imo.

I agree! Imagine taking a chem class entirely online without a lab. Obviously, certain classes need the skills and hands on approach. Also, Weight Watchers is a good example here. The effort to loose 50 lbs. and the effort to learn calculus are comparable. You do need that social component to motivate you along. Ok, ok, I need it.

Still, the days of the professor-preacher are coming to a close. The days of the super-star explainers and lots of grunt lab assistants are coming. Sort-of like Turbo-Tax and the accounting industry.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#156

Post by roc »

JonFish85 wrote: post #126

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You're 18, you can smoke, drive, join the army and take out gigantic loans you can't repay. It's a fine line between making it easy for everyone to go to college and making it easy for a mathematically disinclined person to take out a huge loan for a dumb reason. It would be great for everyone to have the chance to go to some college. For some reason, people seem to immed…

> "Whatever happened to personal responsibility?"

Nothing. But we've long since drawn a line between reasonable expectations of responsibility and being the victim of fraud, deception, etc.

One can certainly argue that college loans haven't crossed that line. But society as a whole has rather moved past arguing whether or not the line ought to exist and whether or not we're all better off for having drawn it.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#157

Post by RyJones »

CoachRufus87 wrote: post #110
Balgair wrote: post #88

My brother now works at a University of California school. He says that the professors are in on the con-game; they know that the kids know that this is all a bubble. Trouble is, everyone involved is tied to the mast. The admins can't find other work for this kind of money, the profs have tenure, the grad students can only otherwise work slinging dope or burgers, and the undergrads have even worse prospects than the…

The problem w/ MOOCs are that many students lack the discipline to successfully finish the class. A blended approach (classroom + online) is the best combination, imo.

That's what we found at CTLT (former part of Washington State University); distance learning + some classroom time was better than distance learning.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#158

Post by MBCook »

Fargren wrote: post #102
ethanbond wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Loans aren't at the root of the problem, but they're also a bad solution. An even worse solution is getting rid of loans. The only solution worse than that? Blaming students. This is why, until there's some radical, radical change, I'll always vote for the people perpetuating student loans. I'm not going to be the one that screws an entire generation out of a worthwhile education in the name of "loans are ba…

Free college subsidized by taxes? We have had that in Argentina for a long time, and for some time we had the best education you could get in Latin America. I'll admit nowadays we are pretty much average, but still free. I can't really explain the reasons for the decline in the quality of our education, and it may be related to our lack of monetization.

Without any kind of price control or accountability on the cost of the education, that's just cutting out the middle man in the cash flow problem. Sure no one will have student loans, but taxes will have to be raised to make up the difference.

As the article points out, all those new buildings they're always building aren't free and the posh dorms are unnecessary. But everyone is paying for them anyway, because why not?

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#159

Post by avenger123 »

JonFish85 wrote: post #126

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You're 18, you can smoke, drive, join the army and take out gigantic loans you can't repay. It's a fine line between making it easy for everyone to go to college and making it easy for a mathematically disinclined person to take out a huge loan for a dumb reason. It would be great for everyone to have the chance to go to some college. For some reason, people seem to immed…

On one hand I agree with your sentiments but expecting an 18 year old to "take responsibility" and choose the right thing for themselves at that age is reasonable at first sight but doesn't take into account the reality of being a young adult.

How many young adults have the confidence, long term thinking and proper guidance to decide that they should go to a cheaper school?

At that age the percentage of people having that kind of maturity is very small (obviously in my opinion). Maybe you are in that small percentage. Now, like I said, you are absolutely right, ultimately it is their decision, but I wouldn't fully blame a fat person for eating that piece of chocolate cake when its been dangled in front of them all day.

Re: Ripping Off Young America: The College-Loan Scandal

#160

Post by donaldc »

johnchristopher wrote: post #26
gxs wrote: post #7

Amazing, perspective is everything. I don't deny that college kids are being taken advantage of. Graduating from a small liberal arts college in South Dakota that no one's ever heard of with a degree is Culture Studies and 80k in debt really is a rip off. The flipside of this coin however is someone like me. My parents are immigrants and I was the first to go to school. To my parents, the fact that someone would be e…

> In some countries, you don't even have the OPTION to take out a loan to go to school. You either have the money and you go, or you don't and it is that much harder to climb the social ladder. > I'm not sure which evil is worse, but I'm damn glad I was offered those loans. You are stacking only two options against each other. There are countries where there are no schools and countries where school is being paid by…

Of course between no school and school with loans the choice is clear (in an (post-)industrialized country, mind you).

Doesn't always seem clear to me. The whole point of the article was that you could be saddled with loan payments for a very, very long time with little to no improvement in job prospects.

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