Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed, but you are ignoring the opportunity cost. It is highly dubious whether a Harvard education is worth more than a UC Berkeley education + $239,996, though this distinction varies from field to field.
Not really. The opportunity cost of going to Berkeley over Harvard (and I'm specifically choosing Berkeley, a top public school with some programs having a similarly low acceptance rate to Harvard) is not knowing the people who went to Harvard, who are more likely to have powerful connections. $200k is nothing, really, in the long term. It's one or two years of salary, whether you've gone to Harvard or Berkeley. It's…
The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
61–70 of 72 posts
Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you make a very strong argument as to why studying for a specific liberal arts major, as opposed to receiving a generalized American-style "liberal arts education" (referring to the uniquely American method of having a core curriculum and general education requirements), is advantageously able to impart these vaguely defined "critical thinking" skills. You haven't given any solid reasons as to why a pre…
To be clear, I'm not necessarily arguing that it's advantageous. I'm arguing that his experience does not qualify as a liberal arts education, and he shouldn't criticize it at such. You seem to place his experience into a second category: >as opposed to receiving a generalized American-style "liberal arts education" (referring to the uniquely American method of having a core curriculum and general education requireme…
Nelson seems to think they don't.
You're seriously misinterpreting what he says about how modern degrees don't impart critical thinking skills. His criticism is directed at Ivy League educations in general - not only pre-professional degrees but also liberal arts degrees: "I didn't have habits of mind that a liberal arts education was supposed to have given me. And not only did I not have it, none of my other colleagues had it—people who had graduated from Princeton and Harvard and Yale." It bears noting that Harvard has no pre-professional degrees except engineering (no business degree); it's clear his criticism is drawn out of his disappointment that a liberal arts education was supposed to give him and his colleagues critical thinking skills, but failed to do so.
Furthermore, the instant I looked at the link you posted, I could already tell that that wasn't actually the degree requirements for Wharton (I could tell that those were the requirements for a major but not for graduation). So that's a really poor example. The full degree and graduation requirements are listed here: https://spike.wharton.upenn.edu/ugrprogram/advising/curricul...
Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really. The opportunity cost of going to Berkeley over Harvard (and I'm specifically choosing Berkeley, a top public school with some programs having a similarly low acceptance rate to Harvard) is not knowing the people who went to Harvard, who are more likely to have powerful connections. $200k is nothing, really, in the long term. It's one or two years of salary, whether you've gone to Harvard or Berkeley. It's…
My point was that this distinction is dubious because while Harvard is probably worth more for some fields, like finance or law, in other fields like engineering, UC Berkeley + 240k is worth more in my opinion.
Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
My point was that this distinction is dubious because while Harvard is probably worth more for some fields, like finance or law, in other fields like engineering, UC Berkeley + 240k is worth more in my opinion.
Still, depends on the purpose. Do you want to get a job at Google or Facebook? Then in engineering, Berkeley would be as good or better than Harvard. But who wants to get a job after undergrad?
What do you mean by this? Are you talking about starting a startup? You could fund your own company for $240k and work on multiple ideas in that time (assuming your first few ideas fail quickly).
Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're saying "people who matter" value the superficial over substance, then I'd further conclude that they literally don't matter.
My wording may be wrong. If you have something in common with someone, you are more likely to help them and want to work with them. The fact is, Harvard/Ivy/elite private school alums, on the whole, are currently in greater positions of power than Berkeley/elite public school alums (this may change in the future of course). For that reason alone, the value of being "from Harvard" is greater than being "from Berkeley"…
Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Still, depends on the purpose. Do you want to get a job at Google or Facebook? Then in engineering, Berkeley would be as good or better than Harvard. But who wants to get a job after undergrad?
But who wants to get a job after undergrad? What do you mean by this? Are you talking about starting a startup? You could fund your own company for $240k and work on multiple ideas in that time (assuming your first few ideas fail quickly).
Where are you getting the $240k? If you could easily get a loan for that amount to do "whatever you want" instead of for higher education, a lot more people would be doing it.
Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
But who wants to get a job after undergrad? What do you mean by this? Are you talking about starting a startup? You could fund your own company for $240k and work on multiple ideas in that time (assuming your first few ideas fail quickly).
A startup is only one option .. you could go to grad school, you could write a book, start a band .. you could travel etc. Where are you getting the $240k? If you could easily get a loan for that amount to do "whatever you want" instead of for higher education, a lot more people would be doing it.
Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
A startup is only one option .. you could go to grad school, you could write a book, start a band .. you could travel etc. Where are you getting the $240k? If you could easily get a loan for that amount to do "whatever you want" instead of for higher education, a lot more people would be doing it.
I'm pulling that amount from the cost of attending a school like Harvard (60k/year, not accounting for YOY tuition increases). The reason a lot more people don't do this is 1) irrationality when it comes to evaluating the brand of colleges, and 2) People don't tend to think in terms of opportunity costs, especially spread over 4 years (which is what the 240k represents).
How do you get a $240k loan if you are not studying at Harvard or a similar school?
Re: The Man Who Would Overthrow Harvard
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
My wording may be wrong. If you have something in common with someone, you are more likely to help them and want to work with them. The fact is, Harvard/Ivy/elite private school alums, on the whole, are currently in greater positions of power than Berkeley/elite public school alums (this may change in the future of course). For that reason alone, the value of being "from Harvard" is greater than being "from Berkeley"…
I see what you're saying, but I'm so glad I don't live in that world anymore.
We all live in "that world", it's not a choice ..