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ElementaryOs Luna released

elementaryos.org

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Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#251
From the homepage:

Luna is built on the rock-solid foundation of Linux (the same software that powers the US Department of Defense, the Bank of China, and more). It has no known viruses, which means no pesky anti-virus software to slow down your system.

Linux has "no known viruses"?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malware

https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/284124-myth-busting-is...

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Linuxvirus

http://www.zdnet.com/linux-desktop-trojan-hand-of-thief-stea...

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just downloaded the (64 bit) iso and tried a live session. Looks very nice. Works fine on Thinkpad X200s. How do I make the terminal background solid? I can't read the terminal when open over another window. I could not discover any way of changing the settings in the terminal application.

Open dconf-editor, navigate to (I think, if I'm wrong, just look around) org.pantheon.terminal and change the opacity field to 100.

Yes, that worked fine. But I had to install the dconf-editor package first, then invoke dconf-editor from the terminal.

Booted my ancient workstation (quad Xeon, nvidia GT520 graphics card) and had the usual issue with 'composited' dekstops and nouveau - very slow screen refresh.

This is not a LunaOS specific problem, it happens with Gnome Shell based distributions. (Ubuntu 12.04 drops down to the Unity 2d shell which is much more responsive, XFCE is fine with built in compositor). My guess is that LunaOS UI is built on top of Gnome shell somehow?

I'd have to install the proprietary drivers for this particular card.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#253
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about 4. Rebase to Debian (Aka: which probably would mean stick with Wayland/follow Gnome) ?

Or 5. package wayland for ubuntu. Kubuntu have already said that they will be using wayland and not switching to Mir, so you may want to talk with them, too. It doesn't seem like anything but stock Ubuntu will be using Mir.

I wonder where that leaves XFCE and LXDE?

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#254
post #163

Just installed this on an acer aspire one. Really nice out of the box. Seems very refined.

How is the performance? My wife owns an old Acer Aspire One A150 and it has become really slow (even if it's running Windows XP) so I'm thinking about installing Linux Mint or.. something else like this?

Oh, mine is an AO756, with a Celeron CPU so it can handle XP like a breeze. Your Atom CPU isn't very comparable, so I'm not sure what you should expect. ElementaryOS is on par with Ubuntu performance wise, although seemingly snappier compared to Unity (I always use openbox wm with Ubuntu). If you're looking to improve performance, you could try Elementary, but Lubuntu or Ubuntu with openbox would be a safe bet.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#255
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X System Preferences screenshot: http://imgur.com/RLB8JZp ElementaryOS settings screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/vnjmHrQ.png It's got the same left-aligned, bolded categories, in the same order, with almost identical text. It even senselessly copied the choice of the Apple Magic Mouse as the mouse icon. That tiny smudge at the bottom represents the Apple logo! I don't mean to suggest that an ElementaryOS designer is…

As a matter of fact, I wrote that very program, Switchboard. It's getting late and I don't want to write a whole book about it's design (though I could), but basically here's the story: I saw some mockups Daniel Fore (the project's founder and lead designer) created for a hypothetical system settings app. Here's an example: http://danrabbit.deviantart.com/art/User-Accounts-Plug-19860... I set about coding the app. I…

> Do I change the settings app JUST to look different than OS X, and lose out on the well-established excellence of Apple's design?

I want to single that statement out and go on from there. I'm a bit hesitant to write this comment because, well, I'm about to criticize you and Apple, and at least the latter tends to invite downvotes and a not so nice discussion. But I think it is important to try to get that message across.

When I see an OS X clone or designers trying to copy OS X, like Ubuntu did with Unity (placing the windows title buttons to the left just because, global menu and so on) I don't think it is bad because it is copying something. I feel when something like this happens like an opportunity is missed to do something better, and that someone must have made the decision who sees himself as designer and uses OS X and now copies OS X. Which is bad mainly because: The "well established excellence of Apple's design" is questionable. It is just not there, from my perspective.

Apple made good stuff. The iPhone was groundbreaking, like maybe other of their stuff before - I won't argue with that. But that doesn't mean all of it is great. And especially on the software side. When judging the software I tend to think that it is not always that great - one finds clear usability errors, weird graphical designs, whole concepts that only seem to work for people being strongly accustomed to them. To copy them blindly leads to disaster, not only when copying the errors Apple made, also when copying sound concepts.

Take the global menu Ubuntu copied. It sacrifices visibility and therefore discoverability of the menu items for visual appeal. And yes, that leads to issues - just yesterday I looked a guy over the shoulder on a crypto party who came from windows, had unity freshly installed and didn't find the option he should have because it simply wasn't visible. I had to show him that the item was hidden, that he had to hover the global menu bar. Clearly, from an usability perspective, Unity became worse because it tried to copy OS X (guess which system its designer at the time was using. You won't need three tries.).

What I'm trying to say is: You say you tried to come up with your own design. I applaud that. And now you copied something which was there, which is alright (though to copy the Mac OS Icons is a ripoff in bad style, completely unnecessary, even if that wasn't you fault). But I want to invite you to free yourself from the thinking that a design is excellent because it is made by Apple. Don't fall into this trap. Don't regard good design as process which is a restyling of old Linux programs with their own design history or windows influenced stuff to stuff that looks and feel like OS X and therefore is good. Stuff is good because it works and is beautiful or whatever you want to achieve, and it is not necessary to copy Apple when trying to build something useable and beautiful. And it is especially not necessary that when already copying Apple, then even to copy the visual characteristics like the icons or the colours or the font. Elementary is a name in some circles by now already - please use that to try to find your own style (Linux would profit!).

Maybe you personally don't even do this. Maybe you are not a designer who uses OS X and defines himself by that and therefore only copies OS X. But the presentation of the elementary OS sure gives the feeling that this is exactly what happened - OS X guys building what they already have, just in "free", just running under Linux. That would be a pity, because the Linux desktop can use people trying to design it into a better form - what it doesn't need is to become OS X.

PS: It would've been really easy to find better categories. That the whole thing is just x sections with one or more rows of Icons in it, that is alright - one could easily come up with that solution when designing it from scratch, it is sound. But why the section names? Just by glancing on it one has to realize there are other possible and sound options.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd never install a non-apt system? You should try a pacman based system, I find it to be nicer, because it embodies the Arch philosophy of keeping things simple.

So simple it didn't even have package signing until a year or two ago. No thanks.

And SecureApt [1] didn't exist until 2003.

[1]: https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#257
post #255
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of fact, I wrote that very program, Switchboard. It's getting late and I don't want to write a whole book about it's design (though I could), but basically here's the story: I saw some mockups Daniel Fore (the project's founder and lead designer) created for a hypothetical system settings app. Here's an example: http://danrabbit.deviantart.com/art/User-Accounts-Plug-19860... I set about coding the app. I…

> Do I change the settings app JUST to look different than OS X, and lose out on the well-established excellence of Apple's design? I want to single that statement out and go on from there. I'm a bit hesitant to write this comment because, well, I'm about to criticize you and Apple, and at least the latter tends to invite downvotes and a not so nice discussion. But I think it is important to try to get that message a…

All I can say in response to this is that design is easier said than done. We didn't copy, we came to the same conclusions. I'm not saying those are the only conclusions, but we're not human-computer interaction theorists, we build practical things. Sometimes practicality trumps purity, and sometimes purity trumps idealism.

If you're criticizing us for not being perfect and not innovating enough, I can't argue. But don't assume (I am explicitly rejecting the claim) that we simply love OS X and want to make our own free version of it, or that we treat Apple as some sort of standard of "proper design". All I can do is invite you to come down to the trenches with us and see what it's all about. I think you'll find it's harder than you might imagine.

P.S It absolutely would not have been easier to find better categories. Those categories are the result of the manual naming tens of thousands of Debian packages going back a decade or more. We give users the option of browsing (as has been the tradition on the Linux desktop for the last 7+ years) by the traditional categories, or by using a free-form fluid list.

P.P.S Frankly, I find your dismissal of our design efforts mildly insulting, though I know you only meant to provide constructive and thoughtful criticism (which I appreciate, at any rate). A bit of constructive criticism for you would be to avoid assuming that because something seems like an obvious solution that it must have been the first or easiest solution. This can come across as arrogant and belittling, and has the tendency to undermine the constructivity of your feedback.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#258
post #84
post #38

This is cool. Finally, a Linux distro that I could set my less-than-technical friends and family with. (Why not Ubuntu, you might ask? Simple: Ubuntu ships off their users' desktop search results to Amazon by default. I know it can be disabled and all that, but that's besides the point. I can't recommend software from people who don't respect their users' privacy.)

I see. And how do your holiness save your "less-than-technical friends and family" from Google, Gmail, iTunes, YouTube, Facebook....

Wow, such vitriol. Let me guess, you're a big Ubuntu fan, and my assertion about privacy offended you and your clan. Now you're trying to peg me as some sort of moral absolutist. Well, I'm not, I just do what I can do when it comes to getting people to use software that respect their privacy.

Obviously, people make their own decisions. Sometimes they ask recommendations, and I respond with my honest opinion. So when it comes to Ubuntu, I tell them that I would not recommend it, for the reason I explained above.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or 5. package wayland for ubuntu. Kubuntu have already said that they will be using wayland and not switching to Mir, so you may want to talk with them, too. It doesn't seem like anything but stock Ubuntu will be using Mir.

I wonder where that leaves XFCE and LXDE?

"Looking further ahead, the GTK version of LXDE will be dropped and all efforts will be focused on the Qt port."

http://blog.lxde.org/?p=1046

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#260
post #257
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do I change the settings app JUST to look different than OS X, and lose out on the well-established excellence of Apple's design? I want to single that statement out and go on from there. I'm a bit hesitant to write this comment because, well, I'm about to criticize you and Apple, and at least the latter tends to invite downvotes and a not so nice discussion. But I think it is important to try to get that message a…

All I can say in response to this is that design is easier said than done. We didn't copy, we came to the same conclusions. I'm not saying those are the only conclusions, but we're not human-computer interaction theorists, we build practical things. Sometimes practicality trumps purity, and sometimes purity trumps idealism. If you're criticizing us for not being perfect and not innovating enough, I can't argue. But d…

And that there are exactly four of them so it turned out like the well-established excellence of Apples design is an happy accident as well? ;) Come on - it is highly unlikely you (=the project) would've arrived at the current result without some form of OSX influence. Anyway, that's beside the point, and if you find that insulting I won't repeat it here - probably enough comments in that direction for now.

Trying to be constructive: You might want to try to use visual distinction to minimize the appearance of copying, especially if that wasn't what happened. Things like the font and the OSX-icon are unnecessary in every case.

Thanks for the invitation, if it's a serious one. I'm using my own ambiance-themed icewm-desktop with my own dock at the bottom, had a look at a lot of window managers, and HCI is what I do atm. If I someday want to work on a desktop for more user than myself I might even remember the offer and will count on a proper introduction^^

Part of my point was that it is harder than just to copy Apple. I'm happy to hear you say that.

In every case I give you the benefit of the doubt that it might behave so much in its own way that the resemblance would be insignificant when actually using it.

And have fun with your release - I bet it will be quite popular.

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