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ElementaryOs Luna released

elementaryos.org

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Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#131
post #62

I have been a developer for elementary for 3 years, and I am part of the elementary core team. I am also personally close friends with much of the design and development team, including the project's founder and lead designer, Daniel Foré. There seems to be a lot of feedback here which basically says "this trying to rip off OS X". I would like to offer you some insight into our internal assessment of these claims. Is…

OS X System Preferences screenshot: http://imgur.com/RLB8JZp ElementaryOS settings screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/vnjmHrQ.png It's got the same left-aligned, bolded categories, in the same order, with almost identical text. It even senselessly copied the choice of the Apple Magic Mouse as the mouse icon. That tiny smudge at the bottom represents the Apple logo! I don't mean to suggest that an ElementaryOS designer is…

> Linux is clearly doing more than "building on ideas" in its relation to OS X.

I hope this was a typo. But other than that you have a point.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#132
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never heard of elementaryOS but it looks great at first glance. I have a specific question I was wondering: how will distributions using non-Unity DEs/WMs such as elementary handle the replacement of X with Mir? I'm not familiar with how child distros handle divergent dependencies in general so I'd love to hear what elementary is doing.

Great question. The simple answer is: we don't know yet. We actually had a conference call with some folks from Canonical a few weeks ago discussing this very issue. At present, it seems like there are three options (I'm taking these points mostly from the minutes from that call): 1. Port everything to Qt and use Mir (because GTK+ might not work under pure Mir -- they've been backing Wayland so far). This would requi…

How have you found developing in Vala?

What is concurrency and multi-threading support like in the language?

With Vala's object system built upon GObject, wouldn't targeting Qt be a problem?

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#135
post #62

I have been a developer for elementary for 3 years, and I am part of the elementary core team. I am also personally close friends with much of the design and development team, including the project's founder and lead designer, Daniel Foré. There seems to be a lot of feedback here which basically says "this trying to rip off OS X". I would like to offer you some insight into our internal assessment of these claims. Is…

OS X System Preferences screenshot: http://imgur.com/RLB8JZp ElementaryOS settings screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/vnjmHrQ.png It's got the same left-aligned, bolded categories, in the same order, with almost identical text. It even senselessly copied the choice of the Apple Magic Mouse as the mouse icon. That tiny smudge at the bottom represents the Apple logo! I don't mean to suggest that an ElementaryOS designer is…

Yeah, I can see that they ripped off the magic mouse icon, but nothing else stands out as being in the least bit egregious.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#136
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe oakaz was referring to the ability to actually play movie and audio files which use non-free formats, such as MP3. This is a frequent/historical pain point for laypersons using Linux desktops. The answer is yes. In the installer, there is a checkbox that asks if the user wants to install these non-free codecs.

Oh, I've been using Linux for years and had no idea this was a problem on some distributions. I guess I've just accidentally skipped the ones dogmatic about non-free codecs.

which distro do you use?

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#137
post #62

I have been a developer for elementary for 3 years, and I am part of the elementary core team. I am also personally close friends with much of the design and development team, including the project's founder and lead designer, Daniel Foré. There seems to be a lot of feedback here which basically says "this trying to rip off OS X". I would like to offer you some insight into our internal assessment of these claims. Is…

OS X System Preferences screenshot: http://imgur.com/RLB8JZp ElementaryOS settings screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/vnjmHrQ.png It's got the same left-aligned, bolded categories, in the same order, with almost identical text. It even senselessly copied the choice of the Apple Magic Mouse as the mouse icon. That tiny smudge at the bottom represents the Apple logo! I don't mean to suggest that an ElementaryOS designer is…

As a matter of fact, I wrote that very program, Switchboard.

It's getting late and I don't want to write a whole book about it's design (though I could), but basically here's the story:

I saw some mockups Daniel Fore (the project's founder and lead designer) created for a hypothetical system settings app. Here's an example: http://danrabbit.deviantart.com/art/User-Accounts-Plug-19860...

I set about coding the app. I was painfully aware of the visual similarities between OS X and Switchboard. I spent literally MONTHS wracking my brain trying to find a better design which was as elegant and efficient. I argued with Dan (who had created a mockup which would become the main interface for switchboard, which you linked), I talked to other designers, I mocked things up by hand. And I/we came up with some really creative alternatives which looked very little like System Preferences in OS X.

In the end however, I was faced with an ultimatum. Do I change the settings app JUST to look different than OS X, and lose out on the well-established excellence of Apple's design?

I truly felt awful about having to face that question. Frankly, it made me upset and depressed for quite a bit. Ultimately however, I was convinced and just said "screw it".

You're absolutely right that I'm not the first one to "copy" Apple's settings program. Here's Ubuntu's. It's extremely similar to the two ones you linked: http://zeth.net/archive/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ubuntu111...

You could say that I failed. You could say I failed to come up with a better interface. And in that sense, I did. But I get extremely frustrated when people dismiss the product of my careful investigation and thought into this matter as "oh, he just wholesale copied OS X". Because it ignores the fact that I really tried to come up with a better solution.

In the end I couldn't, and it seems nobody else has either.

I will say though, I did really try to innovate on the technical side. And in that sense, I think I succeeded. You can see that in some of Switchboard's finer points, such as exposing APIs to the settings panes (which are called Switchboard "plugs") which allow them to actually interact with Switchboard's internal UI, providing, among other things, progress bar support in the title bar.

I wrote an article for the elementary Journal announcing Switchboard here: http://elementaryos.org/journal/attack-settings

And I put together a quick presentation highlighting Switchboard's vision and architecture here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF37THZoNsA | https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0Aah2wnTpXrZAZGRuaDI...

Hopefully, you can see that we did not just "senselessly copy" anything.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Linux distributions focus so much of their efforts on elegant, usable, and consistent design? I would mark that as elementary's primary innovation.

But they focus none of there efforts on elegant, usable, and consistent design. Because none of the effort done was for design. Its literally a carbon copy of OS X. The layout, the colors, the gradients, the multitasking, the dock, the app bounce on the dock, the music app, the exposé style window layout, the mission control tile multiple desktop layout. Any Linux distro with its own UI spent more time on elegant, us…

The exposé looks like it's laid out slightly differently than OS X and includes buttons to close the window.

The multiple desktops is on the bottom and not part of exposé. It includes a new desktop button. It has a dark background rather than blending in with the desktop. It appears you can drag app icons from one desktop to another-- I've never seen that feature before.

The header is black/dark grey, not silver. The colors, gradients and layout of their music player and iTunes look significantly different when compared side by side.

The file manager is greyscale: it doesn't appear to use blue tones like Finder, except for folder icons.

Windows in OS X have 4 buttons, all different colors. Windows in Elementary have 2 buttons, styled the same.

This may seem like a pedantic critique of your comment, but my point is that it's clearly not a "carbon copy" of OS X. The statement "none of the effort was done for design" is not a fair criticism of the Elementary development team.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#139

Mark my words: elementary OS is going to be big. I was on a beta version of elementary OS a couple months ago, and it was like a breath of fresh air. elementary OS sets out to settle the number one complaint casual users have of other Linux distributions: design. Other Linux distributions look like a mish-mash of a bunch of different designs by many different people. elementary OS has a beautiful, striking, and (most…

Sorry but the number one complaint about GNU/Linux is certainly that it doesn't run the same programs people are forced to use at work and at school or that their friends use (games maybe). The OS is not the issue, the compatible programs are. That said, improvements in the OS can't hurt. Elementary looks superb design-wise.

Re: ElementaryOs Luna released

#140
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, thanks for the interest! Our desktop interface and apps are actually quite different from Ubuntu, though we are an Ubuntu-based distribution. To give some concrete examples: - We use our own desktop environment and window manager, Pantheon and Gala, respectively.[1] - We write many of our own apps in-house or work closely with the third-party apps we ship with. For example, our music player, settings application,…

Why browser and mail program ? I mean I can understand usability considerations of photo apps and music player, but you can do so much more by dropping effort on those two apps. I dont mean it in a "resistance is futile" kind of way - but more in terms of not-immediately-needed kind of way. Especially the browser. Webmail suffices for now - I know people want a Sparrow-like mail app on the desktop, but there is so mu…

All of the apps you mentioned are third-party. We do not directly develop the mail or browser programs.

I'm not sure what you meant about Contractor, because we definitely do have API guidelines for it.

Also, there is an excellent third-party Twitter app for elementary OS called Birdie: http://birdieapp.github.io/

I appreciate the input :)

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