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Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

coding2learn.org

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Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#341

Post by PhasmaFelis »

angersock wrote: post #125
brandon272 wrote: post #64

I found that the author came across as extraordinarily condescending with the whole "let's get the president on the phone" thing. I'm sure that the woman he was dealing with understood full well that the "Internet" itself was probably fine and that it was her configuration that was the problem. Though I guess he took the holier-than-thou approach because she didn't use the precise terminology that he would have prefe…

The author wasn't even an IT bro--he was a stand-in whose real job was teaching. This all said, would you expect that a doctor would have patience with somebody who insisted "My body hurts" without being willing to provide more detail? Terminology matters, and those who think it does not are doomed to be taken advantage of by people with more nuanced ways of reasoning about the world.

If I said to a doctor "my chest hurts," I would expect them to say "Your entire chest, or just one point? Is a stabbing pain or more of an ache? Can you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10? Does it hurt more when I press on it?" and so on an so forth. In my experience, users are pretty good at answering those sorts of questions if you're willing to be patient and zero in.

I would not expect a doctor to say "Oh, your chest hurts, that's real helpful, buddy. What am I supposed to do with that? I need details!" Because that would make them an asshole.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#342

Post by vehementi »

maxbrown wrote: post #174
angersock wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author wasn't even an IT bro--he was a stand-in whose real job was teaching. This all said, would you expect that a doctor would have patience with somebody who insisted "My body hurts" without being willing to provide more detail? Terminology matters, and those who think it does not are doomed to be taken advantage of by people with more nuanced ways of reasoning about the world.

I can't think of any doctors I know who would respond to "My body hurts" with disdain, rather than "Can you tell me where, and what type of pain?". If you genuinely wanted to help someone, would the terminology really get in the way?

Luckily he didn't actually respond with disdain. I know many doctors who would have mental flashes of disdain, or perhaps, later vent on the idiocy of her clients.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#343

Post by blinks »

bennyg wrote: post #256
pekk wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost nobody wants to listen to your lecture. They certainly aren't going to repeat it to others! They want you to do it for them, because it is beneath them.

I couldn't disagree more. It's not beneath anybody, and people ask for help all the time - some things that seem daunting or difficult are actually easy and vice versa. You prescribe too much to others' personalities without actually knowing them, and think they do the same to you. What if I told you that you were wrong in doing so?

I would ask if you had ever worked in IT.

There is a reason such jobs turn people into curmudgeons. It's not like they all started that way. You attempt to give a simple explanation as to what you're doing, but as soon as you say anything about their computer, they assume it's technical and tune out.

There are definitely people that would come into the office and learn how you fixed things, and those people were wonderful. Few and far between, though.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#344

Post by brigade »

vehementi wrote: post #330
brigade wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wifi is actually somewhat excusable, if they only ever connect to the internet at home or work and could have been years since those two networks were configured. Plenty of people never use internet on their laptop outside of two or three places. However, it's pure lunacy on the part of the IT guy to expect people to know the specific proxy settings (including whether or not a proxy is needed), where to enter the…

Because sonic and haptic clues are more useful than specific error messages explaining the problem? I guess so, since people just don't read them...

Well yes - even an amateur has a chance of realizing from said clues whether their battery is dead, or they're out of gas.

But for network issues, the error message you're going to get 19 times out of 20 is some minor variant of "Server could not be reached." Which offers no additional information that you don't already know from it failing to work.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#345

Post by wowaname »

I am horrible at being patient with others' technical difficulties. I've run into the "Where's the Internet Explorer icon" problem at my elementary school before; I honestly do not understand why the desktop folder was invented.

Yes, the article was a bit harsh, but you have to admit there are a few real issues the author is pointing out. Why the hell are schools being taught Microsoft Office from junior high all the way to senior year? Why can't school systems set up a GNU/Linux distro on their networks? Sure, it takes a bit more work to install, but it's free and technology classes would benefit heavily from it.

I know somebody is gonna reply and say that Linux has no real-world use.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#346

Post by MarcScott »

Chattered wrote: post #80
MarcScott wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops. I'm sure you'll find lots of other grammar and spelling errors.

Not to mention the fact that aleph isn't anything. The alephs are indexed by ordinals, the smallest being aleph_0. Because of this mistake, I shall dismiss all arguments made in the blog post.

And you're probably wise in doing that.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#347

Post by vehementi »

king_jester wrote: post #297
angersock wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone's MacBook doesn't connect to the internet. At this point, connecting to different wifi networks and turning on and off the radio should be considered basic knowledge--if you'd like to argue to the contrary, please save us the trouble and acknowledge that you want to remove any semblance of security for users. The proxy probably threw up a message describing that it was working properly, and that the requested…

> At this point, connecting to different wifi networks and turning on and off the radio should be considered basic knowledge--if you'd like to argue to the contrary, please save us the trouble and acknowledge that you want to remove any semblance of security for users. I'm just trying to point out that expectations on connectivity are not consistent from one machine or platform to the next and that inconsistency make…

> Having worked with video troubleshooting for a variety of people, some folks understand that the video is remote and some do not. PowerPoint definitely should be designed in a way that helps the user make the distinction better than it currently does.

Those who don't, can't use computers.

I mean come on. "PowerPoint doesn't work" when referring to a video on one of the slides not loading?

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#348

Post by vehementi »

brigade wrote: post #344
vehementi wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because sonic and haptic clues are more useful than specific error messages explaining the problem? I guess so, since people just don't read them...

Well yes - even an amateur has a chance of realizing from said clues whether their battery is dead, or they're out of gas. But for network issues, the error message you're going to get 19 times out of 20 is some minor variant of "Server could not be reached." Which offers no additional information that you don't already know from it failing to work.

"Server can't be reached" gives critical, actionable information. Error messages can be searched for! If you can't search for an error message, you can't use a computer.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#349

Post by scott_s »

300bps wrote: post #309
brandon272 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I detect a lot of resentment in your post that could all be avoided by just saying "No, sorry, I can't fix your computer."

I detect a lot of resentment in your post that could all be avoided by just saying "No, sorry, I can't fix your computer." So I should lie to them? Because that's what I would be doing. The truth is that I can fix their computer. To make that a truthful statement it would have to be, "No, sorry, I won't fix your computer." Has a bit of a different ring to it, doesn't it?

"I don't have the time."
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