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Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

coding2learn.org

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Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#221

Post by rayiner »

daraul wrote: post #209
simonsarris wrote: post #36

I get the feeling that the author was judging the person he was helping far more harshly than the perceived judgement she might have passed on him. Maybe she was tired, clearly she was frustrated, but it wasn't obvious that she held the author in any disdain, though the author seemed to perceive it. What we're sure of is that the author held her in such low regard. I wonder if she picked up on that. I suspect she did…

The car analogy falls apart though, when you consider the complexity of the tasks that he's complaining about. We would rightly laugh at anyone who complained that their car wouldn't 'turn on' when they jammed their key into the gap between the ignition and the steering column, or because the car was out of fuel. We'd laugh if they complained that they can't see at night because they didn't turn the lights on, and ne…

The rebuttal to that is that people might be able to learn if software people didn't keep changing how it works. It's obvious on nearly every car since 1960 where the ignition is. Can you say the same for the Wi-Fi settings on computers?

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#223

Post by brandon272 »

angersock wrote: post #125
brandon272 wrote: post #64

I found that the author came across as extraordinarily condescending with the whole "let's get the president on the phone" thing. I'm sure that the woman he was dealing with understood full well that the "Internet" itself was probably fine and that it was her configuration that was the problem. Though I guess he took the holier-than-thou approach because she didn't use the precise terminology that he would have prefe…

The author wasn't even an IT bro--he was a stand-in whose real job was teaching. This all said, would you expect that a doctor would have patience with somebody who insisted "My body hurts" without being willing to provide more detail? Terminology matters, and those who think it does not are doomed to be taken advantage of by people with more nuanced ways of reasoning about the world.

I don't think comparing it to someone saying "my body hurts" is a good analogy. I think that it would be more appropriate to say that in the case, she knew her body hurt (computer). She knew what part of the body hurt (web browser, PowerPoint). She just didn't know how to identify the problem.

In this case, it would be comparable to your doctor asking you if it were your C3 or C4 vertebrae that was sore and you saying, "I don't know where that is." .. People with a good understanding of human anatomy know the answer; your average layperson probably does not.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#224

Post by jlgreco »

glhaynes wrote: post #201
jlgreco wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who isn't talking about capability? The claim was "Everyone should learn how to change the oil in their car, though." , not "Everyone should change the oil in their car, though." The inability to change your oil is frightening on the same level as the inability to connect yourself to wifi. I don't give a shit if you get your oil changed at the shop, or if your work computer automagically connects to corporate wifi ou…

I just don't at all understand why you're frightened of me not knowing how to do something that I'm not interested in, almost surely never will have to do, and can always easily learn if either of these situations changes. You learn the things you're interested in, the rest of us will each learn the things we're interested in. You can be frightened about that, but it's frankly overbearing.

Pop open your glovebox; there is a nice picture book in there that explains with nice line-drawing illustrations how to change your oil. It is easier in every way than assembling an arbitrary Ikea chair. If following instructions from a picture book is too much for you, then I am frightened, mostly for your own safety.

Nobody is saying you have to figure out how do it in a sterile proctored testing environment with no books or computers. Hell, I still consult the grep manpages semi-regularly; knowing how to read documentation is a part of being able to do things. The ability to do things is a far lower bar than you are making it out to be. I don't believe you actually lack the ability to change your oil. Some people do, and they are frightening.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#225

Post by tekalon »

codegeek wrote: post #9

"the problem is usually the interface between the chair and the keyboard." Loved reading this. Well said [1]. I am sure this post resonates a lot with many of us. I remember a joke where someone calls the tech support of a computer company and it goes like this: Person: "My computer does not turn on". Tech. guy: "Whats the problem. Did you press the ON switch? " Person: "Yes of course. I pressed it twice already" [1]…

My group at work have a work for this. PICNIC- Problem In Chair Not In Computer. This is how we politely describe problem children and either come up with more training opportunities or sigh and fix the issue. Some like the extra training and use it well, others could care less and it doesn't stick.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#226

Post by Kuiper »

I feel like the author defeats his own central thesis in his conclusion:

It didn’t used to be like this. Using an OS used to be hard work. When things went wrong you had to dive in and get dirty to fix things. You learned about file systems and registry settings and drivers for your hardware. Not any more.

In other words, people used to be technically literate because they had to be. Now, it's possible to utilize technology without knowing how it works. Think for a moment about what that means.

This sounds very much like a case of a species evolving to meet its own (lack of) need. People aren't tech literate because you don't need to be tech literate to check your email on an iPad, just like I'm not very proficient in spear hunting because being able to hunt a wild animal is no longer necessary to feed myself.

Not everyone needs to be good at everything, and mastering skills has an opportunity cost. Yes, it would be nice if every teenager could spend the hours required to know how to install Linux and work around the Linux desktop environment, but how many hours would that take them? Every hour that they spend learning how to install and use Linux is one hour less that they have to spend on guitar lessons, or learning a foreign language, or automotive repair, or oratory practice, or whatever other pursuits they might choose to invest themselves in.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#227

Post by daraul »

rayiner wrote: post #221
daraul wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car analogy falls apart though, when you consider the complexity of the tasks that he's complaining about. We would rightly laugh at anyone who complained that their car wouldn't 'turn on' when they jammed their key into the gap between the ignition and the steering column, or because the car was out of fuel. We'd laugh if they complained that they can't see at night because they didn't turn the lights on, and ne…

The rebuttal to that is that people might be able to learn if software people didn't keep changing how it works. It's obvious on nearly every car since 1960 where the ignition is. Can you say the same for the Wi-Fi settings on computers?

I included the bit about the keys/ignition not because it's in an odd place, but because it's a mistake I make fairly often due to carelessness. Most people blindly reach for the ignition and that's fine; most people also don't immediately quit when they miss the hole on their first try.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#228

Post by jlgreco »

jaynos wrote: post #213
glhaynes wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose we have different perspectives on what the general public is capable of. Who's talking about capability? I'm sure the vast majority of people are capable of it. Likewise, I'm sure you're capable of performing lots of the services you pay for. Nevertheless, we all decide differently which things we want to do ourselves and which things we like specialists to do for us.

I agree completely. I can cook my own food, but I don't do it all the time. Also, just because you own a car, doesn't mean you have space to change your oil or the storage area for the (few) tools required and the 5 quarts of used oil that will result.

The point is that you should be able to cook, even if you don't bother to actually cook. Hell, even if you don't have a knife and cutting board, you should still know how you could get those, if you wanted them.

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#229

Post by PavlovsCat »

otakucode wrote: post #26

The problem isn't that these people can't use computers. It's that they can't THINK. They do not understand what critical thinking is, or how it works. They do not know how to approach problems or explore solutions. They don't know how to do it with their computer... or their car, or their vacuuming robot, or their television, or their oven or their relationships or any thing in their life. They don't understand why…

It's that they can't THINK. They do not understand what critical thinking is, or how it works. They do not know how to approach problems or explore solutions.

http://arachnoid.com/lutusp/crashcourse.html

Re: Kids can't use computers, and why it should worry you

#230

Post by pekk »

bennyg wrote: post #192
BWStearns wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The first rule of any educator is to never, under any circumstances, make someone feel inept. And it was so easily avoidable here. In none of these instances did anyone attempt to seek out knowledge. They were looking for a solution. If they had said "how do I [get on the network|reinstall the OS|rip this file off YouTube]?" then it would be a lot easier for me to dismiss him as a curmudgeonly holier-than-thou IT…

> In none of these instances did anyone attempt to seek out knowledge. They were looking for a solution. If they had said "how do I [get on the network|reinstall the OS|rip this file off YouTube]?" then it would be a lot easier for me to dismiss him as a curmudgeonly holier-than-thou IT guy. Still inexcusable, especially as an educator. Here's what I would of done: "Oh you can't connect to the internet? Watch this. S…

Almost nobody wants to listen to your lecture. They certainly aren't going to repeat it to others! They want you to do it for them, because it is beneath them.
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