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Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

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Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#41

Post by inopinatus »

ihsw wrote: post #10
mullingitover wrote: post #8

It's fascinating that the situation is such a mockery of the rule of law, yet it keeps on rolling. If the FISA decided that the NSA's activities were illegal, why would it keep rubber-stamping the warrants? It seems like at that point it should deny every single request going forward until the illegal activities have stopped. Is there a process for impeaching the FISA judges for malfeasance?

It's a matter of official policy to include legal loopholes that enable the Federal government to assert its power rather than comply with the law.

"Bernard, the Official Secrets Act is not to protect secrets, it is to protect officials."[1]

[1] Sir Humphrey Appleby, Jobs for the Boys (e/o "Yes Minister"), Jay A and Lynn J, BBC; first broadcast April 7, 1980.

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#42

Post by bitwize »

jseliger wrote: post #40
mark_l_watson wrote: post #29

I donated money to Obama's 2008 campaign and voted for him twice. I am very disappointed with him. Now, my honest opinion is that at worst he sometimes flat out lies, or at least cleverly tries to confuse people. He says that he had an orderly plan for reviewing privacy issues, all the while, I think that his administration has consistently been trying to keep things hushed up.

I wrote this a couple days ago in response to another HN comment but it's relevant here too; the first paragraph is the one I responded to: >The question is then; in a two party system where both offer the blue pill, who the hell do you vote for? Greens or libertarians, which I have been doing for a long time. Real change starts at the ballot box.

Barring a constitutional amendment that implements a multiparty, proportional-representation parliament, your choices in Murka are either Kang or Kodos.

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#43

Post by jczhang »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #29

I donated money to Obama's 2008 campaign and voted for him twice. I am very disappointed with him. Now, my honest opinion is that at worst he sometimes flat out lies, or at least cleverly tries to confuse people. He says that he had an orderly plan for reviewing privacy issues, all the while, I think that his administration has consistently been trying to keep things hushed up.

I think humans rationalize quite a bit to please both sides. Spend enough time with people who are smart and promote issue X strongly, and you will soon bend whatever 'principle' you had. The idea of balance is very tempting.

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#44

Post by gyepi »

voidlogic wrote: post #3
Moral_ wrote: post #2

Can anyone turn this lawyer speak into something the layman tech person can understand, please?

Yes please, what are the implications of this release?

Hard to tell since the details have been kept secret, but the FOIA request is for any order or opinion of the court on whether any 702 minimization was done unreasonably or whether any any 702 authorities have been used to circumvent the "spirit of the" law, and also for any briefings supplied to congress.

Since we now know that there is at least one such opinion, this will at least shine some sunlight on it so we can see the extent of the "circumventions" and how strongly the court dealt with it. If anything, it may show how firmly the court pursues its oversight responsibilities.

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#45

Post by Sauer_Kraut »

droopybuns wrote: post #37
Sauer_Kraut wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What moral imperatives were implied?

I'm sorry- perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you were suggesting that anyone who works for these companies MUST somehow be complicit in these encroachments by the government. If that's not the case, I think you're cool on not eating your brussel sprouts.

After being informed nearly daily of how one's work assists another in their deeds, then continuing to accept salary, it is compliance and complicity.

Others have shown they do not need to comply, to various ends. Snowden[1], Klein[2], Manning[3], Barrett[4], Levison[5]. This is a terribly narrow range of those who refused and resisted in recent history. From admin to technician to analyst to activist to owner, you can indeed not become complicit with the US government or others after learning knowledge of malfeasance.

Please leave the poor sprouts out of this.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Klein

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_Brown

[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#46

Post by bitwize »

dictum wrote: post #39
mark_l_watson wrote: post #29

I donated money to Obama's 2008 campaign and voted for him twice. I am very disappointed with him. Now, my honest opinion is that at worst he sometimes flat out lies, or at least cleverly tries to confuse people. He says that he had an orderly plan for reviewing privacy issues, all the while, I think that his administration has consistently been trying to keep things hushed up.

What saddens me is that while in the 2012 elections it seems most Obama voters were effectively choosing the lesser of two evils, in 2008 they were voting for Obama. They believed in what he was supposed to represent. In retrospect, maybe they were voting against Bush . In the next election maybe a majority will vote against Obama , and the game will keep going.

What saddens me is that while in the 2012 elections it seems most Obama voters were effectively choosing the lesser of two evils, in 2008 they were voting for Obama. They believed in what he was supposed to represent.

They wanted to believe. Even then Obama gave off considerable whiffs of being a relative political neophyte who felt entitled -- or even destined -- to power, and was given an easy path into the White House by an all-too-eager Democratic apparatus. Still, I was glad he won in 2008 because of his platform; he eventually reneged on so many of his campaign promises that I could not, in good conscience, vote for him in 2012.

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#47

Post by asperous »

famousactress wrote: post #17
makerops wrote: post #15

Buy stock in whatever company the DoJ buys their black markers from.

If momentum builds behind an internet blackout a-la the SOPA protest, that'd be a clever way to do it.. write some js/css that black-marker-redacts the page contents.

Best I can do for hacker news. You'll have to copy it into your browser's javascript console, or prepend javascript: and save it as a bookmarklet.

Array.prototype.slice.call(document.getElementsByTagName('font')).forEach(function(i){i.innerHTML = i.innerHTML.split(' ').reduce(function(acc, cv, i, a) {if (i % 5 == 0) return acc + '' + cv + ' '; else return acc + cv + ' '; }, '');})

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#48

Post by jivatmanx »

JPKab wrote: post #36
mark_l_watson wrote: post #29

I donated money to Obama's 2008 campaign and voted for him twice. I am very disappointed with him. Now, my honest opinion is that at worst he sometimes flat out lies, or at least cleverly tries to confuse people. He says that he had an orderly plan for reviewing privacy issues, all the while, I think that his administration has consistently been trying to keep things hushed up.

Mark, I agree. I think that the situation is this: politicians, in the short term, view the security side of the security vs. freedom debate as the best option. If you can stop a terrorist attack from occurring by infringing freedom, then do it. An attack will make you look much worse than a few intelligent people being upset about privacy invasion. That, sadly, is the unfortunate incentive happening here. I think th…

Many countries have more powerful and interventionist Supreme Courts. Notable, Germany[1]

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Constitutional_Court_of...

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#49

Post by pekk »

bitwize wrote: post #42
jseliger wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote this a couple days ago in response to another HN comment but it's relevant here too; the first paragraph is the one I responded to: >The question is then; in a two party system where both offer the blue pill, who the hell do you vote for? Greens or libertarians, which I have been doing for a long time. Real change starts at the ballot box.

Barring a constitutional amendment that implements a multiparty, proportional-representation parliament, your choices in Murka are either Kang or Kodos.

Political analysis from a cartoon show, regurgitated endlessly to shut down any more nuanced discussion.

Re: Obama to release FISA court opinion that ruled NSA surveillance unconstitutional

#50

Post by joshfraser »

dictum wrote: post #39
mark_l_watson wrote: post #29

I donated money to Obama's 2008 campaign and voted for him twice. I am very disappointed with him. Now, my honest opinion is that at worst he sometimes flat out lies, or at least cleverly tries to confuse people. He says that he had an orderly plan for reviewing privacy issues, all the while, I think that his administration has consistently been trying to keep things hushed up.

What saddens me is that while in the 2012 elections it seems most Obama voters were effectively choosing the lesser of two evils, in 2008 they were voting for Obama. They believed in what he was supposed to represent. In retrospect, maybe they were voting against Bush . In the next election maybe a majority will vote against Obama , and the game will keep going.

We may never have a true democratic election in the US again. As long as the NSA dragnet exists, we'll never know what privately collected information was used to humiliate political opponents or cause them to withdraw from the race rather than face public embarrassment.
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