Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#111

Post by kamjam » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 3:56 PM UTC

greyman wrote: post #51

MrKurtz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shifting the blame and the burden for policy reform onto firms is not only silly but also unfair, you can't really expect them to shut down, they are not one man operations like Lavabit.

It is not unfair. At least some of them, most notably Google and Facebook, actively allure their users to share more and more of their private data, while misleadingly claiming, that they are able to keep them safe. If more and more people will realize the risks of sharing their personal data with those companies, it can endanger their whole business model. So who should fight most vigorously, if not them? And nobody…

It really is time for a Facebook competitor to stand up and say "we will say FK YOU to the NSA/US/any other government requesting your data" by being based somewhere else safe. I'm sure they could use all this to their advantage to gain a lot of traction right now. I remember a couple years back there was a lot of talk about open srouce/p2p based social network (mind is coming to a blank to remember the name)... something like that more appealing to the masses!

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#112

Post by resu_nimda » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 3:58 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #86

criley2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reply on Reddit when I see people bring that up is simple: You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. A police state has no distinction between legislation and executive. Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: * CIA coverup of the attack on our Benghazi consulate' * IRS targeting of political opposition They're planning on using…

> You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. Did you live in a police state? I have. What police state calls itself "police state"? Hint: no state calls itself that. There is always a nice fluffy propaganda label slapped on top. "Freedom Loving Republic Of ..." > Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: Oh look, two investigations. Do…

> Ok there are lot of fucked up states. So still doing well there.

> Again if Somalia did this, nobody would care.

I think you've just illustrated his point...Those fucked up states? Those are the actual police states (some of them at least). The whole point is that you can't just gloss over them, that's the injustice. I absolutely agree that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, but calling it a police state is hyperbole that's not really helpful.

It's like calling the US a third-world country because you saw a homeless camp. It belies a lack of perspective as to what an actual third-world country is.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#113

Post by john_b » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 3:59 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #4

How is it possible for Snowden to be inspired any further? He sacrified his life for us. He is the inspiration. Certainly no president in the next few terms will rest until he is rendered, he has to look over his shoulder now forever. Thank you for your sacrifice Mr. Snowden.

If you are inspired by him, you should realize that he would want you to focus on the message, not the man himself. He's done a lot to initiate change, but others have in the past too. If we don't follow it up with appropriate political pressure, his sacrifices will have been in vain.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#114

Post by MrKurtz » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 4:00 PM UTC

robrenaud wrote: post #92

dmix wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

correction: > no matter how many [lawyers] we place around them A CEO/Chairman hurting a public companies profit via protest against NSA would result in shareholder lawsuits. Another good example of the the legal constructs around corporatism and public stock markets hurting the inherent protectionism from abuse free markets offer society. Corporatism often prevents large companies from acting morally, whether by bei…

What happened when Google left China?

Their shares went down immediately after due to concerns they forfeited the opportunity to expand their business in the world's 2nd largest economy, but as the immediate economic damage was immaterial their decision wasn't followed with a deluge of shareholder lawsuits.

Google already bowed out of one major market due to ethical disagreements, asking them to do that again with their home market is unrealistic - lobbying to mend the laws is the more sensible approach and one that scales better to businesses of that size.

Besides despite disagreements with US policy it's still not China.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#115

Post by _bfhp » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 4:00 PM UTC

pearjuice wrote: post #66

mcv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He hasn't sacrificed his life in the sense that he's dead, but he has sacrificed it in the sense that he left behind the quite comfortable life he had back home. And if he gets extradited, who knows what kind of punishment he'd receive. He was willing to risk his liberty and possibly his life for his country. That makes him a hero by any reasonable definition.

I wish I could say something in defense to all of you Snowden-zealots who would kiss his feet when in eyesight - but I am affraid of getting karma-killed again. Don't be this naive, please.

Sick burn, it's almost as if you're acting like you're on a website that doesn't value productive discourse over petty, childish, condescending feces-slinging

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#116

Post by _bfhp » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 4:02 PM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #22

And now we have completed the move to the story is about Snowden. I wonder what his favorite food is? What is his favorite band? Where is his favorite place to shop? What does he think of the architecture of St. Basils? A few more weeks and it will be 'Privacy Expert Snowden says...' and no one will remember why he's even famous.

Neither the story itself nor the actual title of the piece is about Snowden; whoever submitted the link to HN highlighted the comment by Snowden in their own title. Did you click the link? Did you read the article?

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#117

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 4:03 PM UTC

resu_nimda wrote: post #112

rdtsc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. Did you live in a police state? I have. What police state calls itself "police state"? Hint: no state calls itself that. There is always a nice fluffy propaganda label slapped on top. "Freedom Loving Republic Of ..." > Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: Oh look, two investigations. Do…

> Ok there are lot of fucked up states. So still doing well there. > Again if Somalia did this, nobody would care. I think you've just illustrated his point...Those fucked up states? Those are the actual police states (some of them at least). The whole point is that you can't just gloss over them, that's the injustice. I absolutely agree that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, but calling it a police stat…

[deleted]

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#118

Post by jusben1369 » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 4:11 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #98

jusben1369 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN folks. I think ck2's response and pearjuice's response are both inaccurate as they represent an extreme view. It might be useful to read about celebratory and the attractions and psyche of those that are drawn to it. Many of you here share Snowden's feelings but none of you did what he did. Was it simply his sense of justice that made him do this? Or something more? If he'd stayed in the US and immediately faced t…

I don't worship Snowden at all or see him as celebrity. If anything I wish there was 100% more attention on the information he brought to light instead of him. I merely recognize his extreme sacrifice and thank him for it. If we are supposed to thank the people who ran and signed up for the military to invade Iraq and empowered the insanity of the last administration, we most certainly can thank Snowden for showing u…

Well ck2 it certainly reads like something close to worship. "How is it possible for him to be inspired any further?" "Sacrificed his life" "He can't be inspired, he is the inspirer" That's pretty strong stuff.

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#119

Post by jusben1369 » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 4:12 PM UTC

kamjam wrote: post #94

Evernoob wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> living the life of a celebrity right now I very much doubt it's as glamorous as you seem to be imagining.

Exactly, he's living in hiding. Osama Bin Laden had to do the same, but for actually committing terrible crimes. Hardly the same magnitude and hardly living the life of a celebrity.

Hiding like Osama? Quite the opposite wouldn't you say? Don't we all pretty much know where he is all the time?

Re: Email service used by Snowden shuts down, warns against using US-based companies

#120

Post by zeidrich » Fri, Aug 09, 2013, 4:14 PM UTC

RyanZAG wrote: post #19

criley2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reply on Reddit when I see people bring that up is simple: You insult people who have experienced a police state by calling what we are experiencing a police state. A police state has no distinction between legislation and executive. Our legislation is currently investigating the president for: * CIA coverup of the attack on our Benghazi consulate' * IRS targeting of political opposition They're planning on using…

I agree with you in that a key difference would be if people were held accountable for illegal acts. However, simply investigating the president is not enough - it would actually need to be possible for him to be accused and held liable. An investigation in which the conclusion is already obvious and no one will be held accountable is not really an investigation, it is only smoke and mirrors. Throwing out one set of…

Being held accountable is irrelevant. If what people want is someone to be accountable, people will get scapegoats.

The key difference would be that when acts happen that defy the needs and expectations of society that those actions end.

If Keith Alexander was blamed for acting without authorization and imprisoned for treason and then NSA operations went quietly on their way again, that wouldn't necessarily mean anything.

If on the other hand, there was no punishment doled out, but instead any apology was given out and the PRISM program and similar were dismantled, and a new intelligence system were built in its place with support and approval from the public. Maybe something with proper auditable checks and balances, something with less risk to the public. If that was the case, even if nobody was punished, the situation would improve.

Calling for punishment or vengeance will satisfy emotions. It doesn't do anything to change the status quo. I'm not in the US, but if I were, I wouldn't be calling for the President to be held accountable, or anyone else. I would be calling for change of the laws and processes that I felt were violating my rights.

I think this is especially true in a system as complex as government. There is no one person truly responsible for these systems. So to focus on punishing a person is meaningless. People can be forced to do things despite the potential punishment. People can have decisions made by more powerful people attributed to them.

In the end though, it is more important that bad behavior stops than it is that we exact retribution on some person for it happening. If the latter happens without the former, it's worse than meaningless.