Live data from Hacker News

Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

salon.com

171–180 of 186 posts

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way it goes down is this: Members of the intelligence community are patient. Very very patient indeed. They will build up a dossier of all of your dirty little secrets over a period of years; decades even. They will wait as long as it takes for you to get into a position of power; until they really need something from you, and then, why then they have a nice big fat file waiting for them in the archives, they wil…

Surely you have concrete proof that illegal blackmail occurs within the US Government, right? Wrong. If this were the case, Congress would've defunded US IC years and years ago. You underestimate the determination of US Congressmen to investigate and get their name in the spotlight.

There is nobody in the world of politics whom they can't blackmail in 5 nanoseconds. As long as you are good tool they won't say a thing. But once you get too independent...

that's how democracies work from US to Germany. They are ran by secret services. In some places it is more visible and obvious - Russia, Poland, France, Israel - in some less. However, when you think about, that's the problem with all democracies. That the intelligence communities are running them from the shadow.

Why do you think in the US all the Nazis were so cooperative with the State? Because the CIA had them by the balls - we're going to ignore your past as long as you cooperate. The minute you don't the public finds out about the war crimes you committed. Have you noticed how all politicians have their careers ended once they become troublesome to the current state of affairs. Somehow, somebody tells the media some dark secret about lovers, cocaine, money, whatever, bam! You are history!

The rest is just a show for naive.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#172
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The problem is most of the time companies aren't there to benefit us." Most of the time, huh? Look at the Forbes 500 list and point to all the companies that aren't there to benefit us. Companies that aren't out to serve the public are few and far between, and go out of business. What a ridiculous argument. > Corporations are not there to serve our interest, they're there to serve their shareholders interest. And…

Once they get on this "corporations are evil, government is evil, everything is evil!" tangent, there's no talking to them.

> Once they get on this "corporations are evil, government is evil, everything is evil!" tangent, there's no talking to them.

Nice way to dismiss my post in the most condescending way possible and without even bother to think about the point I made.

I'm not saying corporations nor governments are evil. All I said was that corporations are not interested in the well being of the average person; which they're not. The average person only matter so far as a potential source of income - and it's been proven time and time again that you don't need to respect your customers to earn their business (Sony are a great example of this - just look at the number of times they've screwed over their customers and yet how little impact it's made on their business). This doesn't make corporations 'evil', it just makes their priorities different (and anyone with even the slightest idea of how businesses work shouldn't need to be told that the priority of a business differs from the priority of an individual)

Hence my point; that since the priority of businesses are not that of the people, businesses shouldn't be allowed to influence law.

As for the government being 'evil', I'd probably say they're more a mixture of business men making decisions that are most profitable for themselves (normally an acceptable trait, but in this instance we're back at the conflict of interests argument) and the less intelligent officials who honestly believe anyone they don't understand is a dangerous threat to the United States - so they go completely overboard in their mission to protect the nation against Linux system administrators, other religions and kids who post memes on social networks. Heaven forbid they ever meet an 18 year old social network addict Muslim who works as a sysadmin; I bet some officials would probably have a heart attack.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#173
I find this quote highly offensive:

"Who for them are the World Trade Centers?"

Thousands of people died and many others thought they barely cheated death. It's insulting to compare that with the dangers of these "hackers."

Is there a Godwin's law of the NSA now that involves the WTC?

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#174
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know exactly who Hayden was talking about, but various people on the Internet have done a lot more than "express support". Calls for "revolution" and "rioting in the streets" seem to pop up in comments on these stories on a pretty regular basis on various sites. But there have also been suggestions of more specific action, including shooting FISA court judges and others and one guy on Reddit speculating about…

One wacko on Reddit and a few hyperbolic calls for protest hardly warrants a heavy handed response. What about the constant over-reaction you hear from gun rights activists? You hear far louder and more violent statements directly from national TV pundits anytime the topic of gun reform comes up. I don't understand why as a country we are okay with heavily armed, self-appointed militias spouting paranoid delusions ab…

Voter blocks.

edit: also pissing off hackers and privacy advocates doesn't have the same political downside to pissing off the NRA

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#175

Michael Hayden is being provocative -- attempting to provoke debate. This is an excellent, laudable act, and should be warmly welcomed. So, here is my response:- There is an element of truth to what Michael Hayden is saying, although his analysis of the situation is enormously telling, and reveals a lot about the culture that prevails in the corridors of power. It is true that the internet is creating communities and…

>This second aspect is particularly dangerous in that he seeks to incite and provoke the very threat that he spends so much effort warning us about. He ruthlessly exploits our tribalistic, pack-animal ancestry, conjuring up hostile groups where none exist; engineering conflict in a callous game of divide-and-conquer. I don't understand. In one breath, you're saying such a provocative statement is welcome and even "la…

Hey ... I don't (and didn't) run a massive government agency. Probably never will. (At least, not after writing this sort of specious crap).

That fact gives me a certain degree of latitude to (a) be inconsistent and (b) spout bullshit.

Asymmetric information warfare, (like guerilla warfare) offers the weaker party far more freedom to manoeuvre than the stronger party enjoys. In other words, it does not matter too much if I am rude, if I exaggerate, plain make stuff up, deploy dodgy humour and plainly bitter and twisted sarcasm (the lowest form of wit, to wit). Not that I would want to characterise all this guff as information warfare. I am just writing things down as I see them. Speak truth to power and all that. Plus, I get to be as ugly as I damn well like, whilst the "Elmer Fudd" comments never stop rolling for poor old Michael Hayden.

Indeed, I would be more inclined to see NSA bods as mates than enemies (the low-level techie ones, at least) -- and despite the many many many provocative statements that I have made in the past, I still feel like we are all, fundamentally, on the same team, working towards the same goals. Put me in the same position as Snowden, and I probably would not have made the decision to leak. I may have bitched about it a bit by the coffee machine though.

It is a pity that these leaks have occurred ... in the sense that they should never have had to happen in the first place. Of course the security services are going to spy on people. It is their job. ... but the fact that even one of their number felt anything less than rock-solid certainty in their mission and their methods speaks volumes about the way that they are going about their task.

Secondly, the villain of the piece isn't really the NSA -- or, indeed, any of the agencies from any given nation-state: It is the tidal-wave of technological change that is upsetting the status quo ... not the agencies who suddenly find their powers vastly enhanced by the past half-decade of progress.

This article does the issue better justice than I am able to: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2013/aug/05/nsa-p...

When, in the past, I used to worry about that phenomenon of accelerating technological change which we glibly term "the singularity", I focused, along with everybody else, on the economic disruption that would come from the inevitable concentration of wealth

... never for one second did I consider that privacy and surveillance would roll along as a sort of bow wave, heralding the magnitude of the technological shocks still to come.

[Edited to make it slightly less clumsy]

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#176

"who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years." This is the scariest aspect of the data collection. People like this have the data to identify homosexuals. Hell, I suspect that a lot of the rationale for the data collection was tracking Muslims. The potential this information has to facilitate genocide is astronomical and homophobes are in positions of power.

Can we all please just take a deep breath and stop with the hyperbole. The US government is not planning to commit genocide against gay people or whatever ridiculous premise you're insinuating.

There are probably more than a few ex-marine-corps types, very well placed in the defence-industrial establishment that would not say "no" if asked to do such a thing.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am afraid that I am almost entirely ignorant of psychological literature, and I shall seek to remedy my deficiency in the directions that you have mentioned, with my grateful thanks for your suggestions.

Excellent starting point: http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Ecology-Spirituality-Evolution-Edi...

Gawd. Looks utterly ghastly....

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#178
post #61
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I thought it was removed completly. I understood that but this 500 points-rule souds like an invitation to karma whoring... I'll return to my silent existence now.

Karma-whoring will be counterproductive if the community doesn't solicit/reward such behaviour. And this attitude of the community has more or less thwarted karma-whoring till now. We'll see how this works out in future.

Really? How do you realise it is carma whoring on such a high niveau portal? I see many comments stating the obvious getting their upvotes, not contributing anything useful to a topic. It is still carma whoring, just on a high niveau. This is what such a system creates and it forces you to scroll more to find the really useful comment. I know it works, I did it too ;)

Removing the system completly while integrating a clever report-system would have been more useful here imho.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent starting point: http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Ecology-Spirituality-Evolution-Edi...

Gawd. Looks utterly ghastly....

You can give it a shot at [0]. I think it's well thought out written theory of how psychology develops. The core of their theory divides evolution of "holons" (simultaneous parts&wholes) on 2 axies: internal vs outer processes and individual vs society

Problems arise when a node stretches too far in a particular direction, or fuses to tightly with its current "holon" level and refuses to synthesize its axis to evolve.

I encourage you to read the first chapter or two before making a value judgement on the book.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you threatening me? ;-) Kidding aside, I almost never downvote (power = responsibility)

I haven't seen that formula before

Yeah, it's not really popular, these days. And don't count on it becoming more popular any time soon.
Post reply on HN