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Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

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Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#151

Post by uxp »

TDL wrote: post #132
Shish2k wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> represents as in "they are the image of what those who elected them want" I don't vote for who I want, I look at who has a chance of winning and vote for the lesser evil, because any other vote is practically meaningless. (Our voting system is stupid)

Voting for a lesser evil is still voting for evil. You can always choose not to vote or vote for a candidate that does not have a chance of winning.

Voting for a third party candidate who does not have a chance of winning also increases their voter base, which in turn increases their funding for subsequent years.

We might not be able to elect a libertarian, green, constitution, or whig president in 2016, but just as the erosion of our freedoms has taken decades, we'll have to rebuild everything just as slowly. Vote for your preferred candidate this primary. You may not be on "the winning team" today, but you're sending a message that the status quo is not what we want.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#152

Post by dmix »

steveklabnik wrote: post #105
weland wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA did not spring out of the ground, either, and the Cold War has arguably been over since 1991 or so. Indirect democracy makes it very easy to eschew responsibility in terms of "I had a choice between candidate X and candidate Y; they both supported decision D. I didn't support it, but since I had to vote between either X and Y, I didn't have a choice, did I?". If the actions of the NSA were seen by American ci…

> The fact that we keep seeing these votes is simply a proof of the fact that most people don't really care about it. Allow me to introduce you to two voters, A and B. Also two representatives, X and Y. There are two issues in this campaign, D and E. Support matrix: DE Xyn Yny Now, A may care about both D and E, but feel more strongly about D. B may care about both D and E, but feel a bit more strongly about E. So A…

I'm curious how much of the perceived benefit of republic-based democracy is based in logical fallacies and myth.

Voters are irrational and on a long-term scale, growth in state power eventually leads to the circumvention of public involvement, counter to the very definition of a republic: "A republic is a form of government in which affairs of state are a 'public matter', not the private concern of the rulers".

Constitutions were the obvious solution to this problem but they are very rarely considered absolute law in modern times, which almost defeats their purpose. Their influence worn down over decades of tinkering and executive-branch expansions in power.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#153

Post by babebridou »

erre wrote: post #108
kshatrea wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For what it's worth, I take that form of "tl;dr" as emphasis, not as a literal tl;dr. This. I've been inured to using it in that way as well. I see the criticism above as a valid one though.

I've always found that construct weird. I tend to use "tl;wr" (the "w" standing for "won't", instead of "didn't"), at the top.

Also known as "executive summary"...

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#154

Post by scarecrowbob »

onebaddude wrote: post #104
devb wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporations are owned by people like you and me, composed of people like you and me, run by people like you and me, and paid by people like you and me. That's really sunshiny happy and everything, but corporations and I have entirely different motives and values. I could just as easily point out that murderers, pedophiles, and (yes) Nazis are people like you and me.

> That's really sunshiny happy and everything It's reality. We own the shares, we work for them, we manage them, and we support them by buying their products. If we cease doing any of that, they no longer exist. This idea that "corporations" are one thing and people are another is preposterous.

I think you might be evaluating the referent of the word "we" incorrectly.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#155

Post by quantumpotato_ »

w_t_payne wrote: post #147
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are entirely correct and that you have delineated the deep structure of the scenario we find ourselves in. Are you familiar with the work of Ken Wilber who, standing on the shoulders of giants, popularised the ideas of Developmental Psychology that support your claim? Hayden uses language in a specific way that indicates the centre of gravity of his consciousness is located in a very Conventional / Confor…

I am afraid that I am almost entirely ignorant of psychological literature, and I shall seek to remedy my deficiency in the directions that you have mentioned, with my grateful thanks for your suggestions.

Excellent starting point: http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Ecology-Spirituality-Evolution-Edi...

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#156

Post by Adam503 »

Michael Hayden was NSA director from 1999 to 2005. Michael Hayden literally was being paid a big salary to stop 9/11 from happening. How'd that go for him? Not so good.

Look at ALL THE TOOLS we now know the NSA Director really had at his disposal to prevent a foreign terrorist from hitting the US on 9/11. Micheal Hayden name's should down in along side infamous names like the Admiral who commanded the Pacific Fleet the day of Pearl Harbor.

Michael Hayden is the textbook definition of "the man who can't find his ass with two hands and an assmap." Hayden's picture should appear next to it in Famous Quotation books.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#157

Post by [deleted] »

rst wrote: post #93
weland wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A government that no longer represents the people, but corporations and those that benefit by it, will threaten those that question its legitimacy as that is only obvious. A government elected with a reasonable majority arguably represents the people who elected them. Not represents as in "represents their interests", implying that they act on their behalf in their best interest. No, represents as in "they are the…

I did vote for a candidate in 2008 who opposed the Bush administration's massive build-up of surveillance infrastructure: Obama. By 2012, it was clear he wasn't following through, but the other candidate on offer would almost certainly have been, on balance, a whole lot worse --- and a bad choice is still a choice. When, in office, has Obama been representing what I want, in this regard, and when do you think I had a…

[deleted]

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#158

Post by ceol »

onebaddude wrote: post #98
laumars wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Run by a tiny subset of people like you and me. The problem is most of the time companies aren't there to benefit us. Chief Exec's will give themselves massive bonuses while cutting the wages on the lower tiers. Corporations will readily use dirty tactics and lobbying to drive smaller companies out of business without any thought of the people who depend upon that business. And so on and so forth. Corporations are no…

> "The problem is most of the time companies aren't there to benefit us." Most of the time, huh? Look at the Forbes 500 list and point to all the companies that aren't there to benefit us. Companies that aren't out to serve the public are few and far between, and go out of business. What a ridiculous argument. > Corporations are not there to serve our interest, they're there to serve their shareholders interest. And…

Once they get on this "corporations are evil, government is evil, everything is evil!" tangent, there's no talking to them.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#159

Post by Adam503 »

kyledrake wrote: post #100
brudgers wrote: post #19

"who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years." This is the scariest aspect of the data collection. People like this have the data to identify homosexuals. Hell, I suspect that a lot of the rationale for the data collection was tracking Muslims. The potential this information has to facilitate genocide is astronomical and homophobes are in positions of power.

The FBI used to track homosexuals because they were suspected communists. This is my fear with these programs exactly. I don't expect the current government to round up homosexuals or hackers, but here's the thing. Let's say we have a big economic depression, and a politically extremist party gets into office. Now we've got a complete database for them to dig through to purge their idea of "undesirables". Think that'…

Now we know J. Edgar Hoover was tracking homosexuals to get phone numbers for cute boys.

Re: Cyberscare: Ex-NSA chief calls transparency groups, hackers next terrorists

#160

Post by MrMan »

aluhut wrote: post #32
unimpressive wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes at 500 karma. You'll have to wait a while. And if you mean the article, then you'll never get downvote. There is no downvoting articles. Only flagging.

Oh I thought it was removed completly. I understood that but this 500 points-rule souds like an invitation to karma whoring... I'll return to my silent existence now.

I will probably never get to 500 because the only way I can "downvote" is to post a challenging, dismissive, or otherwise negative comment. Which people don't really like. Since I don't care at all about karma, I also cannot be bothered to carefully craft intelligent-seeming pedagogery, to humble-brag, to spam, or any other form of whoring, subtle or blatant. Oh well.
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