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Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

pinknews.co.uk

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Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#71

Post by dreamfactory »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #36
alexakarpov wrote: post #23

(Russian here) - Fry is 100% correct in his assessment. I pay a lot of attention to the wickedness of Russian politics, and, quite frankly, LBGTQ are right there at the very edge of Russian political struggle, being one of the very few groups whose very survival demands liberty (others may get by through kowtowing to the political powers, but they don't have that option). They are hated by an overwhelming majority of…

I can't believe no one is talking about how this all relates to revelations from the US state department cable leaks. The cables showed that the US State Department is actively involved in advancing anti-traditionalist groups in many countries. One of the cables went on quite a bit about how greater efforts are needed in France to promote multiculturalism and homosexual acceptance because so much of the nation remain…

Rubbish, there are plenty of gays in Russia. Have you even looked at Soviet Realism? You do realise most of those artists were gay and their pictures had a secondary meaning?

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#72

Post by guard-of-terra »

noarchy wrote: post #67
guard-of-terra wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they? It's not a crime to be gay. The crime is "gay propaganda" (that is, anything that publicly references gays basically). You're not helping anyone by spreading FUD.

It isn't FUD. You're basically saying it is ok, as long as gays keep their mouths shut, and don't utter "propaganda".

No, I'm saying you should't expect to get prosecuted for something that isn't crime. I'm saying you should have your facts straight.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#73

Post by hedgie13 »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #42
GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that they were going to ignore the anti-LGBT laws for the Olympics [0] [0] http://rt.com/news/russia-olympics-gay-law-948/

They clarified later that they are going to enforce that law.

They clarified: the law does not prohibit being gay, the law just introduces fines for promoting homosexuality as a norm for children under 16. It is probably a bad law, but it is not saying what everyone protesting it thinks it is saying.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#75

Post by Someone »

mistercow wrote: post #63
jorgecastillo wrote: post #37

I think some people become very indignant about this issue only because it's Russia. I don't see that much indignation at other nations that treat non heterosexual people worst. Other nations whose treatment of women and religious minorities can't not but be called barbarous. Some of whom are close allies of the USA. I personally see no problem with how other nations manage their internal affairs, as long as they kee…

"Other countries do it too!" is a common derailing tactic, and it's not worth very much consideration. I will note, however, that Russia is hosting the 2014 Winter Olympics. Traditionally, hosting the Olympics has been a pretty good catalyst for getting the world to bring your country under a bit of scrutiny. If the Olympics were being held in Dubai, then the only reason we wouldn't be hearing about how they treat ga…

"If the Olympics were being held in Dubai, then the only reason we wouldn't be hearing about how they treat gays would be all of the screaming the plethora of other social issues plaguing the UAE."

I agree that we would _hear_ from it, and that we should do more than talk of it, but will we? We'll know that ten years from now (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup). Yes, that's not the Olympics and not the UAE, but I think the case is similar enough for this discussion.

I am a pessimistic about that; we had a World Cup under Videla in Argentinia, too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_FIFA_World_Cup#Controversy...)

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#76

Post by hedgie13 »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #52
tehwalrus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't have civil rights laws to protect homosexuals, but it has made it explicitly legal (1997), and removed it from lists of "mental illnesses" (2001)[1]. I'm aware it isn't a democracy, but it doesn't appear to sanction official discrimination in the same way as Russia on this issue. If you look at the rest of [1], you'll see it also has a long history of (debatable) tolerance for homosexuality. (I am aware…

Russia made it explicitly legal around 1992, after the fall of USSR.

In 1993, 10 years before US.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#77

Post by desireco42 »

This ridiculous and this is not something it should be on hacker news.

Stephen Fry is completely wrong, but again, not a thing we should discuss here.

@pgraham can you focus us back to our lovely, go against ruby against php and clisp rules them all.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#78

Post by hedgie13 »

seandougall wrote: post #66
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #53

There is quite a leap from Russian anti gay propaganda laws to boycotting the Olympics. Many people would argue that laws supporting any kind of torture or the death penalty are human rights abuses so should any and all countries practicing those laws be forbidden from partaking in or hosting something so arbitrary as the Olympics? I'm not arguing that this wouldn't be an effective way to get the Russian government t…

As far as I've seen, nobody in those countries has publicly threatened Olympic athletes with torture or the death penalty, simply for the crime of existing. I'm open to counterexamples, if I'm wrong.

I think homosexuality is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia and Iran. No one is trying to exclude teams from these countries from Olympics. Also:

> Milan, Venice and Turin had severed their “twin” relationships with Russian cities in outrage over the “anti-gay law”. However, Milan remains twinned with Dakar, Senegal, where any same-sex activity is illegal and punishable by 1 to 5 years imprisonment. Turin remains twinned with Kazerun, Iran, where any same-sex activity is illegal and punishable by death. Venice had only two twins; since it dumped St Petersburg in a show of solidarity that likely had the gay community in tears of emotion, it now has only one – Esfahan, Iran. Yeah, that’s right.

( https://marknesop.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/somewhere-over-th... )

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#79

Post by mladenkovacevic »

seandougall wrote: post #66
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #53

There is quite a leap from Russian anti gay propaganda laws to boycotting the Olympics. Many people would argue that laws supporting any kind of torture or the death penalty are human rights abuses so should any and all countries practicing those laws be forbidden from partaking in or hosting something so arbitrary as the Olympics? I'm not arguing that this wouldn't be an effective way to get the Russian government t…

As far as I've seen, nobody in those countries has publicly threatened Olympic athletes with torture or the death penalty, simply for the crime of existing. I'm open to counterexamples, if I'm wrong.

So you are saying Russia has threatened to legislate the execution and torture of any gay athletes simply for existing?

Common, I'm all for enabling all minorities across the globe to live in peace and without fear of persecution, but let's make an honest effort of it and not via hyperbole and political posturing.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#80

Post by moocowduckquack »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #34
dylangs1030 wrote: post #9

At the risk of sounding insensitive (I'm not), I'd like to make a reminder that Hitler persecuted Jews and homosexuals alike...the Jews were a priority for him, but he had infrastructure dedicated to several groups. More importantly, because this article doesn't really cite much except for Stephen Fry's word, I'd like to here highlight that it's very much factual and well-documented, so as to remove doubt: http://en.…

"Putin is a very well-established and popular leader if I recall correctly, so I also don't see why he'd need such a polarizing campaign" He got 52% where I live, it's good for an American president but like a failure for a Popular Dictator. And polarizing is what he does every day since fall 2011. He's no longer the president of all russians, he's a president of all russians minus a long and detailed list of people…

He has also tied his political image to his health and masculinity, which I personally think is a really stupid move on his part. Playing the bare chested strongman has a definite lifespan to it.

Personally I think that he has also forced himself to be publicly homophobic as if he wasn't, then all of his strutting around half naked asking men to wrestle, might look a little bit suspect to his followers, Russia being fond of the concept of the gay conspiracy meme these days. Hell, even the Russian Olympic wrestling coach alleged that the removal of wrestling from the Olympics was due to a gay conspiracy, apparently being unaware that wrestling is one of the most homoerotic sports on the planet.

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