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Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

pinknews.co.uk

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Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#31

Post by guard-of-terra »

ihsw wrote: post #25
ronaldx wrote: post #17

> An absolute ban on the Russian Winter Olympics of 2014 on Sochi is simply essential. Wow, I couldn't disagree more on this point. One of the great things about the Olympics is that it's without politics [er... in this regard]. I don't believe that it's acceptable to say that places with different cultural values make unsuitable hosts. Human rights criticisms were also levelled at London, and even more at Beijing. I…

Fortunately, Nazi Germany didn't arrest Jesse Owens upon arrival to the country. Russia has made it clear that they will not afford the same freedom to gays and lesbians, or more to the point they plan on arresting them immediately upon arrival.

Why would they? It's not a crime to be gay. The crime is "gay propaganda" (that is, anything that publicly references gays basically).

You're not helping anyone by spreading FUD.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#32

Post by dylangs1030 »

alexakarpov wrote: post #23

(Russian here) - Fry is 100% correct in his assessment. I pay a lot of attention to the wickedness of Russian politics, and, quite frankly, LBGTQ are right there at the very edge of Russian political struggle, being one of the very few groups whose very survival demands liberty (others may get by through kowtowing to the political powers, but they don't have that option). They are hated by an overwhelming majority of…

Thanks for your inside assessment. You said the same majority votes Putin into power...do you have anything you could cite for this, or is it your observation?

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#33

Post by alexakarpov »

ronaldx wrote: post #17

> An absolute ban on the Russian Winter Olympics of 2014 on Sochi is simply essential. Wow, I couldn't disagree more on this point. One of the great things about the Olympics is that it's without politics [er... in this regard]. I don't believe that it's acceptable to say that places with different cultural values make unsuitable hosts. Human rights criticisms were also levelled at London, and even more at Beijing. I…

There's an old joke from Communist times. It goes like this -- and old communist argues:

- What do you mean, we don't respect human rights? Of course we respect human rights! Why, I can provide the name of that human right now!

Same goes for 'celebrating human achievements' you've mentioned. No such thing will happen. There's only one achievement allowed into the celebration - the achievement of United Russia Party and its leader. Whatever the emotional positive externalities these Game might produce, all will be harvested by state propaganda.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#34

Post by guard-of-terra »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #9

At the risk of sounding insensitive (I'm not), I'd like to make a reminder that Hitler persecuted Jews and homosexuals alike...the Jews were a priority for him, but he had infrastructure dedicated to several groups. More importantly, because this article doesn't really cite much except for Stephen Fry's word, I'd like to here highlight that it's very much factual and well-documented, so as to remove doubt: http://en.…

"Putin is a very well-established and popular leader if I recall correctly, so I also don't see why he'd need such a polarizing campaign"

He got 52% where I live, it's good for an American president but like a failure for a Popular Dictator.

And polarizing is what he does every day since fall 2011. He's no longer the president of all russians, he's a president of all russians minus a long and detailed list of people he accuses of various wrongdoings or wrongthinkings.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#35

Post by comrh »

Renaud wrote: post #4

Instead of boycotting, I would advocate for subversion. The Games have been a platform for highlighting social issues before: get on that platform and show that gay and lesbians can be winners too and that other athletes support their plight. At any rate, it's going to be interesting to watch.

I love this idea. The 1968 Power Salute for the LGBT community.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#36

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

alexakarpov wrote: post #23

(Russian here) - Fry is 100% correct in his assessment. I pay a lot of attention to the wickedness of Russian politics, and, quite frankly, LBGTQ are right there at the very edge of Russian political struggle, being one of the very few groups whose very survival demands liberty (others may get by through kowtowing to the political powers, but they don't have that option). They are hated by an overwhelming majority of…

I can't believe no one is talking about how this all relates to revelations from the US state department cable leaks. The cables showed that the US State Department is actively involved in advancing anti-traditionalist groups in many countries. One of the cables went on quite a bit about how greater efforts are needed in France to promote multiculturalism and homosexual acceptance because so much of the nation remains traditionalist.

To a certain degree here Putin is in fact combating a propaganda arm of the US government that operates in his country. Remember Pussy Riot and the bizarre media reactions to their stunt? That shit was obviously western orchestrated when you looked at the reactions and the people involved.

I can think of no surer way to impair the cause of tolerance social acceptance than the stuff the USG is doing. Of course it's going to provoke a backlash.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#37

Post by jorgecastillo »

I think some people become very indignant about this issue only because it's Russia. I don't see that much indignation at other nations that treat non heterosexual people worst. Other nations whose treatment of women and religious minorities can't not but be called barbarous. Some of whom are close allies of the USA. I personally see no problem with how other nations manage their internal affairs, as long as they keep to themselves.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#38

Post by yareally »

tehwalrus wrote: post #29
runn1ng wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, it is written like that in my language and I didn't realize it's wrong in English; I corrected that

The only time I've heard it used in English recently is at Chinese restaurants, where the popular dish is still called "Peking Duck". Beijing is much closer to the Mandarin pronouciation, bei3 jing1, meaning "north capital." (there is also a Nanjing, "south capital.")

Similar to Beijing, Nanjing was once pronounced as "Nanking" in the West. Some historical events, such as the Nanking Incident[1], still reference that pronunciation to avoid confusion.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Incident

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#40

Post by lux »

daveid wrote: post #14
tkellogg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There probably is merit to the warning, but the word "scapegoat" may be wrong. It means that your blaming the nation's problems on them. I haven't yet seen Putin blaming gays for economic hardships or crime. Misuse of overly strong words discredits the article.

But isn't it still "scapegoat" if you divert the public's attention from real issues to fight somebody in particular?

All you have to do is give the people a common enemy to unite against.
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