Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef • Hacker News Board

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#161

Post by consonants » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:28 PM UTC

wikiburner wrote: post #45

rorrr2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite, I love meat, but hate the animal suffering. Even if it tastes half as good and costs around the same, I will switch.

Exactly. The benefits to ending animal suffering, the environment, and maybe even human health could be amazing if they could produce molecularly identical artificial meat, but the one interesting aspect of it is that as a consequence of our wanting to avoid animal cruelty, billions of animals will never exist . I know it might be silly to question whether a chicken or cow would prefer existence with a cruel end to n…

Like the other domesticated animals that once had a vital purpose in human society, there will be people who will continue to raise them simply because they view them as companions and not a commodity.

That's a noble goal, in my opinion.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#162

Post by chc » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:28 PM UTC

bayesianhorse wrote: post #100

deveac wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When researching lab-made, I found them to be 70% - 80% of the cost of nats across the board. My jeweler told me that (at least for the brand he carried) DeBeers bought the company that had the technology and patents for creating them in the lab, and thus the prices will remain close to nats as they will not set them at a point where they erode pricing on nats. Based off my research, if the poster above you got his/h…

Actually it's not a humane alternative. The profits from the lab-made diamonds flow into the holding company owning all those mines. The prices would be a lot lower if not for the identical owners. While I normally try not to judge corporations, DeBeers looks, to me at least, like the ultimate prototype for "evil monopolist manipulating the masses".

In my experience, the best alternative (in terms of retaining the virtues of diamond without the inflated costs and human rights abuses) to natural diamonds is ironically not artificial diamonds, but moissanite. It looks a lot like a diamond, but more fiery.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#163

Post by zevyoura » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

wprl wrote: post #103

tomjen3 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some of us have heard about the conditions subsitense farmers (and that is really what you are talking about) lived under. Industrializations biggest contribution to mankinds improvement of life is to get us away from the farm. The farm you imagine will never and can never be. If we can't used modern farming methods then we have to work with hard back-breaking labor 14+ hours a day from childhood and until we…

That's what I am doing, actually. As a beginner, I'm producing about 15% of my food now, eggs and vegetables, while also running a software business, and hanging about on HN. I live in a small city on about 1/4 acre. I expect to improve my yield quite a bit — three or four times in the next few seasons. I buy almost exclusively organic, local produce and meat. It's amazing how the savings begin to add up when you coo…

I applaud your effort, but I think you've made an incorrect assumption about scaling up your farming.

>Someone with mechanized equipment and a few acres could produce much more organic produce than I do in the same amount of time, and meat, cheese, and eggs. Enough to supply dozens or more families with food. And because internet access is available, they are not disconnected from the world and could even run a software business like I do (or be an artist, or accountant, or mechanic, or virtual assistant, chef, or any number of jobs).

People do this, they're called CSAs[0]. When I was younger, my family belonged to one, and I can guarantee you the [awesome] people running it did not have the time on their hands to run a significant side business on the internet.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community-supported_agricultur...

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#164

Post by axblount » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #154

axblount wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am vegan and have been for about a year and a half. Animal products are not necessary for a healthy diet. That goes for adults and infants. http://www.veganoutreach.org/enewsletter/20070523.html Crown Shakur did die because he parents didn't supply him with adequate nutrition, but there's no reason he couldn't have gotten what he needed on a vegan diet. Plenty of children are raised on a 100% vegan diet and thrive…

Can you link to a study or two that at-least suggest that infants can be raised vegan?

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf

"It is the position of the American Di- etetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian di- ets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, in- cluding pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes."

Also, http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/yjada/art...

Just breastfeed! Breast milk is the ideal infant food after all. Crown Shakra was fed just apple juice and soymilk.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#165

Post by total__C » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:30 PM UTC

Something I've always wondered about regarding synthetic meat:

for say synthetic pork, would it be necessary to mechanically 'exercise' the muscle fibers in order for them to taste the same as pork from a pig?

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#166

Post by shabble » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

dreamdu5t wrote: post #149

Even with fully-developed technology, I have a hard time believing it will require less energy to manufacture a pound of synthetic beef than it will to simply grow it naturally. Am I wrong?

One of the efficiency issues is the relatively large percentage of cow that isn't edible if you're using it solely for meat. Of course, there are uses for the other bits - pet food, bonemeal, leather, and gelatin are all things you can do with it, and no doubt more.

But there are huge costs (monetary and energy) in scaling "breed, fatten & slaughter a lot of cows", and in intensive operations, they're largely fed on pre-prepared feed from corn or whatever.

Things like feedlot construction/maintenance, feed delivery, waste disposal, transport to slaughter/butchering all contribute above the feed costs.

I'm not sure how the artificial alternative would stack up, but most of those other factors can be eliminated or reduced, and (depending on feedstocks to the clone growing) bypassing the energy costs of growing, harvesting and processing of the vegetable feed.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#167

Post by penguindev » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #85

wprl wrote: post #77

How about a return to traditional agriculture, which would provide more jobs, cleaner food, and decentralization and localization of food infrastructure? Why the relentless pursuit of industrialization and homogeneity at any cost?

Because it doesn't scale to feeding 7 billion people for one. Because most people in industrialized countries don't want to be farm labor for two.

Why should anything scale to feeding 7 billion? You realize we are at 7 billion now because of previous scientific food efforts, like hybridizing wheat / GMO / toxic insecticides?

All science is doing is making the problem bigger and bigger. Stop subsidizing population growth.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#168

Post by stonemetal » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #38

rattray wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is certainly the prevailing wisdom, but I disagree actually. The tech to get in-vitro meat to a point that's just objectively more palatable, healthy, and inexpensive than traditional meat will be incredibly complex. On the order of Musk's work at Tesla, or greater. But once it surpasses that point, no amount of bad marketing could keep it from being commercially successful.

Maybe, but this just reminds me of the whole "Pepsi vs. Coke" or "Android vs. iPhone" tests. Just because people rationally understand that synthetic meat is the same/better than traditional doesn't mean that they'll run out to buy it.

Fast food chains will switch over when it becomes profitable to do so. It will be in consumer's hands long before they ever buy it.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#169

Post by api » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

tdfx wrote: post #158

axblount wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you assuming that meat consumption is necessary?

I keep a high level of protein my diet. I've tried veggie burgers and other substitutes and enjoyed them a lot, but I can't replace all my meals with them because they're just so damn high in sodium. Any suggestions?

If you don't want to go full-vegan, whey protein isn't bad. But you shouldn't rely on any one source exclusively.

Full-vegan options include quinoa, beans, lentils, and nuts. But I agree it's hard. You have to eat a lot of these things.

Re: Sergey Brin invests in synthetic beef

#170

Post by consonants » Mon, Aug 05, 2013, 5:34 PM UTC

rorrr2 wrote: post #124

rsl7 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who eats an entirely plant-based diet, it sounds like a terrible idea. If it tastes half as good as actual meat, then it will be much worse than even the cheapest, overprocessed soy protein 'burgers' in the frozen food section of the grocery store. Seriously.

Bull. Shit. My wife is a vegetarian. I've tried probably 8-10 different brands of vegie burgers and chicken nuggets. They don't taste even remotely like meat. Some do taste alright, I admit. Another problem is price. You would think soy products would be cheaper than meat. Nope. So freaking expensive.

>So freaking expensive.

It seems someone hasn't visited their local asian food market ;)