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NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

forbes.com

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Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#91

Post by joering2 »

northwest wrote: post #4

> “No, I’m saying I don’t trust you!” shouted McCoy. I believe that's pretty central here. I don't see how we can ever be able again to trust an organism such as the NSA - or even the government. Transparency is the only solution here. Will we get it? If we don't, the only other solution would be to cut budgets so drastically that such an enterprise will simply not be possible financially, anymore. And maybe, as a ge…

> I believe that's pretty central here. I don't see how we can ever be able again to trust an organism such as the NSA - or even the government.

We won't. This cancer is a one-way street. It will kill the organism and kill itself with it. And they know it. That's why they buy billions of ammunition rounds and dispatch lightweight tanks throught the states borders. They know that history repeat itself and they don't want another fourth of July to be celebrated in 500 years now (this time US 2.0 that bunch of clever people used GIT to form a better government). NSA systems are not in place to save you and your family from terrorist -- terrorism needs to be wisely guided; some need to leak through so that you and your family keep being scared, submit to the State and pay more taxes for more "safety". Terrorism is not on their agenda. Had they not let shoe bomber and Boston bombers do what they did, me and you would protest against more surveillance (with Boston bombers officials were inconveniently kept notified by russian government) because we would have been felt safe.

> Transparency is the only solution here. Will we get it?

We won't and we can't. They will oppose it saying that if we tell you what we do, bad guys will use it. Nothing will change this approach. Manning did a huge leak of gov docs and military officials said many lives will be lost as a result; other than Arab spring that did not happen on US soil, nothing happened at all. It was a bluff that they will continue using.

> If we don't, the only other solution would be to cut budgets so drastically that such an enterprise will simply not be possible financially, anymore.

Its not that simple. Even President of United State does not know how many black-ops agencies exist within the goverment. Some entities of the gov sponsor themselves God only knows doing what. If you cut their air supply, they will go to CIA and say: "here are the tapes when you and other officials are negotiating deals with drug cartels in Afganistan, here is a conversation where smuggling is being organized to move tons of heroine into US on a military aircraft, sponsor our venture or we will leak the info". And there you have it. Most likely dirty branches of gov do not need public money but of course they will take it anyways.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#93

Post by YellowRex »

YellowRex wrote: post #92

I hate Forbes - interstitial ads and persistent headers are super annoying. Can we stop posting Forbes links? Boing Boing has the same coverage with a much more reader-friendly site design: http://boingboing.net/2013/07/31/nsa-capo-heckled-at-black-h...

Grrr, the Boing Boing article just links to Forbes.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#94

Post by sriramk »

tptacek wrote: post #14

This entire event was a staged press op. Keith Alexander is a ~30 year veteran of SIGINT, electronic warfare, and intelligence, and a Four-Star US Army General --- which is a bigger deal than you probably think it is. He's a spy chief in the truest sense and a master politician. Anyone who thinks he walked into that conference hall in Caesars without a near perfect forecast of the outcome of the speech is kidding the…

I was just about to get on this thread and post about how reasonable and measured his response was. Your comment is one of the better ones I've read on this whole topic.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#95

Post by griffordson »

tptacek wrote: post #88
griffordson wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And his detractors look like a bunch of OWS hooligans even if only subconsciously. I haven't actually seen the Black Hat talk yet, but I can imagine the audience does not compare favorably to another recent PR event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fawN4OZEt-Y This kind of thing helps build up the conscious and unconscious associations in the minds of many that favor the NSA a great deal.

The audience for this event is infosec professionals wearing t-shirts, for whatever that's worth to you. Demographically pretty compatible with Reddit, or at least the subset of Redditors with top-quartile (for IT) incomes. To the extent that this audience has any engagement with public policy, that engagement is likely to take a Ron Paul-ish flavor.

Sorry, my comment wasn't very clear. I was comparing the behavior of the two audiences more than appearance or socioeconomic status or anything else. When the video comes out, people are likely to be reminded of the people doing Mic Checks at board meetings etc. And for many, that sort of thing is just rude and out of bounds.

Notice how he wore his uniform this year instead of something more casual like he did at last year's Def Con. I agree, this was very carefully orchestrated to help discredit his detractors.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#96

Post by jessaustin »

dmix wrote: post #58

> Alexander also noted the 6,000 NSA cryptologists who have deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, 20 of whom were killed in the line of duty according to Alexander. “Think about people willing to go forward to Iraq and Afghanistan, to make sure our soldiers, airmen and marines get the intelligence they need,” he said. “I believe these are the most noble people we have in this country.” Having lost a brother who deployed…

Hear, hear! When the top brass evoke these deaths, it's like they're saying "if our sainted dead soldiers followed these orders, how can you possibly disagree?" Frankly, the last general worthy of making that sort of comparison was Eisenhower, and he would have been the last man in the military to do so. He was already sickened at this leadership culture when he was President. If he were alive today he would cross the street to avoid a conversation with Alexander.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#97

Post by snowwrestler »

kunai wrote: post #31
tptacek wrote: post #14

This entire event was a staged press op. Keith Alexander is a ~30 year veteran of SIGINT, electronic warfare, and intelligence, and a Four-Star US Army General --- which is a bigger deal than you probably think it is. He's a spy chief in the truest sense and a master politician. Anyone who thinks he walked into that conference hall in Caesars without a near perfect forecast of the outcome of the speech is kidding the…

Agreed; his extensive infosec background and smooth-talking politician talents meant that he probably had full knowledge of how this was going to go down. What's interesting is why he attempted PR reconciliation at a relatively niche conference. Black Hat doesn't have much connection to the mass public, and trying to make yourself look good in front of a mass of angry hackers is pointless anyhow because hackers tend…

It's not about reconciliation with hackers, it's about creating a picture that will be portrayed to the rest of the country by the popular media.

News shows and websites will tell the story about a reasonable-seeming establishment guy going to give a speech, and a bunch of weird-looking hackers acting unruly.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#98

Post by wil421 »

From the article: “Everyone’s thinking this, but no one’s saying it public, so everyone thinks they’re alone,” he said. “Ninety-eight percent of society has issues with this…But no one speaks up.”

While I think some people don't how to speak up, beside calling/writing my congress person, many don't care either way. In fact, many older people I have talked to (I am in my twenties) dont have a problem with what the NSA is doing. They dont really mind if their data is being sifted through as long as its being used to "Find Terrorists or what have you."

My problem is the lack of oversight and the fact court that has approved 1,789 out of 1,748 requests (97.7%!!!!). Not only that but they have legal justifications for what they are doing, therefore since its legal its allowed, forget the morals/ethics involved.

Who's to say they won't turn this around on the public at large because it will prevent smaller crimes instead of terrorists. Also whats to stop the government from calling people who oppose their views terrorists and then just spy directly at American people.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#99

Post by vijayboyapati »

Funny how Alexander says he's read the Constitution, and implores the heckler to do the same. If one can read the Constitution and square the NSA's mass surveillance with the 4th amendment then one can square a circle. There really is no point in debating people like this on the technicalities of the Constitution. What they understand is power. He has it and we don't. He knows how to pull the levers that matter, and which Congressman and executive branch bureaucrats to lean on to make sure his bailiwick is not reduced by a single inch. The rest of us, sadly, are left flailing around hoping that pointing to a piece of paper is an effective check on evil.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#100

Post by jessaustin »

wavefunction wrote: post #84
JonFish85 wrote: post #22

All things considered, it seems like Keith Alexander did a pretty good job of handling the situation. Personally I think the heckler sounded like a douche ("read the Constitution" sounds like a dumb thing to say to a 4 star general who probably has better knowledge of it than your average hacker), even if he (the heckler) had some good points. It would have been easy for the situation to devolve into something much u…

I'm curious why you claim that a 4-star general would have a better knowledge of the Constitution than an average hacker? Especially one who seems to be running an illegal and unconstitutional program like Gen. Alexander.

Well he's got it printed on a roll of paper that hangs next to a seat he occupies twice a day, so he's had ample opportunity to read it.
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