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NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

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Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#51

Post by samstave »

tptacek wrote: post #43
don_draper wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>What's interesting is why he attempted PR reconciliation at a relatively niche conference. He was recruiting. Don't let the tattoos and black shirts worn by the crowd fool you, many work and/or consult for the government.

NSA recruits from engineering universities. They are quite good at it. The idea that he needs to troll Black Hat for talent dignifies the audience at Black Hat and misses the truth of what was happening there.

Can you enlighten me on the truth of what was happening there? (Serious request)

Your write-up of Alexander is spot on. He has been referred to both the most powerful and the most feared man in the world.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#52

Post by rbanffy »

I find particularly hard to believe the "6,000 NSA cryptologists who have deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq" part. Why would anyone want to deploy cryptologists into a war zone?

I also found disheartening the applause given to the general for his clever answers. "I have. So should you"?! I expected more from the Black Hat crowd.

And, finally, I applaud Jon McCoy for his sacrifice. His willingness to endure all the cavity searches he'll be subjected to before and after every flight inspires us all.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#53

Post by [deleted] »

norswap wrote: post #37

Hackers applauded Alexander? He really has played them like pipes. You can argue all you want, but in the end, some boundaries have to be set. What the NSA did (does actually) is way past that boundary for most people, and I think with reason, but that's another debate. He hasn't supplied any argument that would make us reconsider the boundaries. All this terrorist talk is bullshit.

[deleted]

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#54

Post by CoryG89 »

northwest wrote: post #18
mjfl wrote: post #16

I don't care whether the director of the NSA is a bad guy, it just makes you look bad if you heckle someone on stage. There are probably few more scrutinizing audiences for the director of the NSA than a professional security conference. I would rather have him say what he has to say and be analysed by the many bright minds at the conference than for him to be childishly interrupted and waste time that could be spent…

> it just makes you look bad if you heckle someone on stage. It also takes a lot of courage to do just that. And people with courage are rare. They need our support. People who are 2 inches away from getting loud need our support. Because they are the people who can start the chain reaction that is so urgently needed now and that will not happen if we collectively shut up and just stay polite. We have been seriously…

I agree with the sentiment. I think that most people in that crowd were probably thinking that they can't possibly believe what he's going to tell them. Why is he on stage? However, I also agree that people yelling things like this from a crowd while he was on stage plays directly into their hand. It makes people sympathize and makes the General look more reasonable. In a perfect world, everyone would have walked out and not listened to him at all.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#55

Post by emhart »

JonFish85 wrote: post #22

All things considered, it seems like Keith Alexander did a pretty good job of handling the situation. Personally I think the heckler sounded like a douche ("read the Constitution" sounds like a dumb thing to say to a 4 star general who probably has better knowledge of it than your average hacker), even if he (the heckler) had some good points. It would have been easy for the situation to devolve into something much u…

I feel like we could do with some ugly right about now.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#56

Post by ferdo »

mseebach wrote: post #29
ferdo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians and bureaucrats won't change until people start treating them with contempt, both socially and professionally. Playing nicey-nice with people that have little to no conscience doesn't work as a method of political change.

Being rude also doesn't work as a method of political change? It doesn't, and in addition you alienate people who thing being civilised is a good thing. Politicians are already one of the most reviled groups around, and that doesn't discourage them. Stage effective, organised opposition that will actually threaten their plushy careers, then they'll listen.

There's nothing civilized about being polite to people that are actively undermining our rights.

Politeness is reserved for society, not for antisocial personalities.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#57

Post by mcescalante »

norswap wrote: post #37

Hackers applauded Alexander? He really has played them like pipes. You can argue all you want, but in the end, some boundaries have to be set. What the NSA did (does actually) is way past that boundary for most people, and I think with reason, but that's another debate. He hasn't supplied any argument that would make us reconsider the boundaries. All this terrorist talk is bullshit.

They weren't applauding Alexander, they were applauding for the conference goers who were shouting out loud at him (and their messages).

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#58

Post by dmix »

> Alexander also noted the 6,000 NSA cryptologists who have deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq, 20 of whom were killed in the line of duty according to Alexander. “Think about people willing to go forward to Iraq and Afghanistan, to make sure our soldiers, airmen and marines get the intelligence they need,” he said. “I believe these are the most noble people we have in this country.”

Having lost a brother who deployed as a signals operator in Afghanistan (to an IED), it always makes me cringe whenever they use forward-deployed soldiers as a defense of the higher-level states "nobility". There is nothing noble about mass surveillance or the invasion of privacy of non-enemy combatant nations/citizens.

The fact citizens signed up to risk their lives in combat-zones at the bottom end of the chain does not legitimize the actions of those at the top.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#59

Post by mechanical_fish »

kunai wrote: post #31
tptacek wrote: post #14

This entire event was a staged press op. Keith Alexander is a ~30 year veteran of SIGINT, electronic warfare, and intelligence, and a Four-Star US Army General --- which is a bigger deal than you probably think it is. He's a spy chief in the truest sense and a master politician. Anyone who thinks he walked into that conference hall in Caesars without a near perfect forecast of the outcome of the speech is kidding the…

Agreed; his extensive infosec background and smooth-talking politician talents meant that he probably had full knowledge of how this was going to go down. What's interesting is why he attempted PR reconciliation at a relatively niche conference. Black Hat doesn't have much connection to the mass public, and trying to make yourself look good in front of a mass of angry hackers is pointless anyhow because hackers tend…

The niche-ness of the conference could be part of the media strategy. If you want to portray your critics as part of a fringe, you find a place on the fringe and get yourself photographed there, dodging thrown beer bottles.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#60

Post by tptacek »

samstave wrote: post #51
tptacek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NSA recruits from engineering universities. They are quite good at it. The idea that he needs to troll Black Hat for talent dignifies the audience at Black Hat and misses the truth of what was happening there.

Can you enlighten me on the truth of what was happening there? (Serious request) Your write-up of Alexander is spot on. He has been referred to both the most powerful and the most feared man in the world.

I have no idea why anyone outside of the DoD would fear him.

Again, the truth is simple: it was a press op. The event was corporate enough that nobody was going to throw pies at him, but just countercultural enough that he could be assured that someone would make him look better by heckling.

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