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NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

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Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#31

Post by kunai »

tptacek wrote: post #14

This entire event was a staged press op. Keith Alexander is a ~30 year veteran of SIGINT, electronic warfare, and intelligence, and a Four-Star US Army General --- which is a bigger deal than you probably think it is. He's a spy chief in the truest sense and a master politician. Anyone who thinks he walked into that conference hall in Caesars without a near perfect forecast of the outcome of the speech is kidding the…

Agreed; his extensive infosec background and smooth-talking politician talents meant that he probably had full knowledge of how this was going to go down. What's interesting is why he attempted PR reconciliation at a relatively niche conference. Black Hat doesn't have much connection to the mass public, and trying to make yourself look good in front of a mass of angry hackers is pointless anyhow because hackers tend to stay angry about topics like privacy.

Now, if he had a full blown press conference with civilian attendees, then, well...

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#33

Post by mturmon »

methehack wrote: post #28
podperson wrote: post #3

No idea how accurate a depiction of the speech this is, but the article is -- contrary to the title -- portraying the speech as having been warmly received, applauded, with one lone heckler. Now, whether or not one agrees with General Alexander, there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit".

> there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit". I disagree. When chatting with Faust, I think it's better to avoid the drawn out conversation and just tell him to fuck off. This Alexander guy is a liar and a felon (lying under oath to congress) and has earned our collective disrespect. He deserves a lot more than "bullshit!" He's a domestic terrorist that's infiltrated the…

It does not matter what Alexander deserves.

What matters is choosing a strategy that will be effective in exposing this intel-gathering to public scrutiny. One person shouting is not such a strategy.

It's the difference between individual catharsis and effective political strategy that produces an outcome.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#34

Post by mindcrime »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #19
ferdo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a guy that makes excuses to spy on us all and lies to Congress deserve any courtesy?

How on earth does shouting "bullshit" at him like an idiot fratboy make him any more likely to give your concerns any credence? The best it can do is surprise him for a millisecond, then let him write you off as an "unserious" person to be briefly patronized and then devoutly ignored (or worse, add you to a list of "interesting" persons).

How on earth does shouting "bullshit" at him like an idiot fratboy make him any more likely to give your concerns any credence?

Why would you think that was the desired outcome? If I'd been the one heckling him, I can guarantee you my thinking would not have been anything along the lines of "I want this guy to listen to what I have to say, consider it carefully, and then decide something". Why? Because I'm pretty close to 100% sure that Keith Alexander doesn't give a flying fuck what I think about anything, and never will no matter what I say. Hey, in an ideal world, I'd be wrong, and I hope I am. But I wouldn't bet a plug nickel on it.

No, if I'd been there and been heckling him, it would have been solely in the hopes of invoking the "someone must go first" aspect of crowd psychology, and hoping to see him booed off of the stage... because I think having that happen, and having it reported that that happened, would send a powerful message to everybody involved... Alexander, members of Congress, the public at large, and other hackers.

then let him write you off as an "unserious" person to be briefly patronized

I don't see any reason to think that that isn't his opinion of everyone in the crowd from the moment he walked in. Remember, to these NSA guys, people like us are "the enemy". When he stands on a stage and looks out at a crowd, he isn't seeing law-abiding, honest, hard-working American citizens worthy of their Constitutionally guaranteed rights - he's seeing a room full of "potential terrorists".

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#35

Post by diminoten »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #24
podperson wrote: post #3

No idea how accurate a depiction of the speech this is, but the article is -- contrary to the title -- portraying the speech as having been warmly received, applauded, with one lone heckler. Now, whether or not one agrees with General Alexander, there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit".

> portraying the speech as having been warmly received, applauded, Disappointing if true. I can't imagine anything that Keith Alexander would say that is deserving of applause. The guy deserves no quarter.

Why, because you elected people who put him in charge?

Who really deserves no quarter here?

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#36

Post by moxie »

mjfl wrote: post #16

I don't care whether the director of the NSA is a bad guy, it just makes you look bad if you heckle someone on stage. There are probably few more scrutinizing audiences for the director of the NSA than a professional security conference. I would rather have him say what he has to say and be analysed by the many bright minds at the conference than for him to be childishly interrupted and waste time that could be spent…

General Alexander doesn't have to act rude when he has the power of the NSA behind him. The only power we have in a situation like that is to be disruptive and to be rude. Why should we treat him with respect given all the disrespectful things that he's instrumental in?

Those in power keep trying to present this as a "conversation" or a "dialog," but that's absolute bullshit. They're not actually trying to have a conversation, so we shouldn't behave as if that's what's happening. The most powerful thing we could have done would have been to boo him off the stage.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#37

Post by norswap »

Hackers applauded Alexander? He really has played them like pipes.

You can argue all you want, but in the end, some boundaries have to be set. What the NSA did (does actually) is way past that boundary for most people, and I think with reason, but that's another debate. He hasn't supplied any argument that would make us reconsider the boundaries. All this terrorist talk is bullshit.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#38

Post by cracell »

methehack wrote: post #28
podperson wrote: post #3

No idea how accurate a depiction of the speech this is, but the article is -- contrary to the title -- portraying the speech as having been warmly received, applauded, with one lone heckler. Now, whether or not one agrees with General Alexander, there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit".

> there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit". I disagree. When chatting with Faust, I think it's better to avoid the drawn out conversation and just tell him to fuck off. This Alexander guy is a liar and a felon (lying under oath to congress) and has earned our collective disrespect. He deserves a lot more than "bullshit!" He's a domestic terrorist that's infiltrated the…

What has he done that makes him a terrorist? Or are you just inferring that mass spying is a form of terrorism?

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#39

Post by tomelders »

mturmon wrote: post #33
methehack wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are more courteous and productive ways to express yourself than yelling "bullshit". I disagree. When chatting with Faust, I think it's better to avoid the drawn out conversation and just tell him to fuck off. This Alexander guy is a liar and a felon (lying under oath to congress) and has earned our collective disrespect. He deserves a lot more than "bullshit!" He's a domestic terrorist that's infiltrated the…

It does not matter what Alexander deserves. What matters is choosing a strategy that will be effective in exposing this intel-gathering to public scrutiny. One person shouting is not such a strategy. It's the difference between individual catharsis and effective political strategy that produces an outcome.

So what would be a winning strategy in this scenario?

I don't think there is one. So let him know you think he's an arsehole while you have the chance because nothing you can say or do is going to change the general's stance on this issue. He's above the law and completely unaccountable. But he's not beyond being called out for being a bad person by another person, and I suspect that's the closest you're going to get to justice on this issue.

Re: NSA director heckled on stage at Black Hat security conference

#40

Post by don_draper »

kunai wrote: post #31
tptacek wrote: post #14

This entire event was a staged press op. Keith Alexander is a ~30 year veteran of SIGINT, electronic warfare, and intelligence, and a Four-Star US Army General --- which is a bigger deal than you probably think it is. He's a spy chief in the truest sense and a master politician. Anyone who thinks he walked into that conference hall in Caesars without a near perfect forecast of the outcome of the speech is kidding the…

Agreed; his extensive infosec background and smooth-talking politician talents meant that he probably had full knowledge of how this was going to go down. What's interesting is why he attempted PR reconciliation at a relatively niche conference. Black Hat doesn't have much connection to the mass public, and trying to make yourself look good in front of a mass of angry hackers is pointless anyhow because hackers tend…

>>What's interesting is why he attempted PR reconciliation at a relatively niche conference.

He was recruiting. Don't let the tattoos and black shirts worn by the crowd fool you, many work and/or consult for the government.

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