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XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

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Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#411
post #376

I'm getting seriously irritated at the "I have nothing to hide" crowd. For starters, here are a few ways this can go horribly wrong: * Industrial espionage -- it's big business, and I'm sure it pays better than being an NSA analyst. * Foreign espionage -- since this gives unlimited querying power to every agent, a single "turned" agent could inflict massive damage on U.S. government and industry interests on behalf o…

I completely agree. I got very frustrated talking to two intelligent people (one a lawyer) about this the other day. I think everyone should be educated to make sure they know about these points so that they can intelligently explain them to the "I've got nothing to hide" crowd. The 4th Amendment and the right to privacy just doesn't seem to carry much weight with the average person any longer (if it ever did).

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me that people aren't too concerned of nameless, faceless people looking through their stuff so long as people they know (parents, spouse, friends..) don't see it.

Nameless, faceless people can show it to their parents, spouse, or friends, or threaten to.

Unfortunately most people don't make that connection and assume that it "would never happen to them" and don't care if it happens to someone else.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all: keep the staggering to a minimum. Second: realizing that "we should have known" and "none of this is new" isn't so much about reading news articles and being "plugged in", but rather having an understanding of how the Internet works. To oversimplify greatly, you're essentially playing a very precise game of telephone between around 10-20 different people, and usually about 1-3 different publicly-owned c…

The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us . They have compeley misused the power we granted them in sacred trust. We should remove it from them at once. If this has become impossible, we need to know that as soon as we can.

> The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us.

Again, I'll chime in as the resident apologist. The people working at Fort Meade are not evil. They truly believe they're doing a great service to the nation. They may be wrong, and they've certainly thrown privacy out the window. But they are following an ideal: national security.

Post 9/11, the nation went on a war footing. We reacted the way we did to the Nazis and the Soviets. And in their search for an existential threat, the intelligence community seized on nuclear terrorism. These analysts live in constant fear of the day they miss a piece of information and New York, Washington, or London is enveloped in a mushroom cloud.

The best explanations for this type of reasoning that I have heard came from an unlikely source, my grandfather. He's a former FBI agent and WWII Navy veteran. In war time, we threw all sorts of civil, economic, and political liberties out the window to defend ourselves. When I asked him how this was allowed to happen, he said simply, "When you're facing an enemy that wants to cross over the hill into the valley where you, your family, and everyone you've ever known or loved lives, you'll do anything to protect them."

Our grandparents grew up with the threat of the Nazis. Our parents faced the prospect of annihilation by the Soviets. We have had the luxury of coming of age in a time where there is no credible threat to our very national and physical existence.

As a result, it's difficult for us to understand the mindset of someone that spends all day, every day, thinking of the most horrible ways we could be attacked, and then trying to devise countermeasures. It's almost inevitable their perspective on the balance between security and privacy is altered.

I'm not saying this reasoning is morally correct or justifiable, especially when applied to the current surveillance programs, but simply that it is understandable.

The key danger is that these efforts are qualitatively distinct from those in previous generations. The difference between extraordinary measures now and then is twofold.

First, our capacity to surveil the citizenry has exploded over the past two decades, and our legal framework is still grappling with that change. The courts are having trouble understanding that a change in scale can be a change in kind.

For example, it's one thing to have the occasional surveillance flight to search for drug operations. It's quite another to have aerostats and quadrotors watching every inch of a city all the time. But the legal rational that there is no right to privacy in public spaces allows both.

Similarly, it's one thing to say the records generated by my water company are business records not subject to the Fourth Amendment, but it's quite another to use that rationale to justify monitoring the location of my cell phone simply because my cellular provider maintains the records.

Second, wars have a point where they end, and the extraordinary measures are supposed to be reversed. That's why the "war on terror" and the "war on drugs" are so dangerous to civil liberties. They essentially extend the extraordinary measures during wartime to police problems that have no logical end.

I agree that we've gone too far as a nation. The fact that these queries don't require FISA orders flat out shocked me, even as a careful observer of these issues. But let's not demonize the individuals. After all, they're only doing what the people demanded after we were attacked. This is a democracy, and immediately after 9/11 such measures were resoundingly approved by the public and our representatives, beginning with the PATRIOT Act.

None of that changes the current reality however. We must slowly learn the lesson the British did when dealing with terrorism. If you treat it as an ordinary police matter, something that will always be present, you deprive it of its power to shock, from which it derives its effectiveness.

The fact is that the war on terror must now end. It's time for a return to normalcy.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#415

>How do I find a strong-selector for a known target? >How do I find a cell of terrorists that has no known connection to strong-selectors? >Answer: Look for anomalous events >E.g. Someone whose language is out of place for the region they are in >Someone who is using encryption >Someone searching the web for suspicious stuff Lovely. Suspicious stuff and encryption. But wait! There's more! >Show me all the VPN startup…

I'd like to know where they are keeping these "over 300 terrorists" that have been captured due to this program. How is one labeled a terrorist by this program I wonder?

And these days it seems you can be labeled a terrorist just for protesting..

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#416

Surely the question on everyone's mind is: how good is incognito mode???

The only thing incognito mode does is keep your activity and cookies while in that mode from being saved into your local browser history. It doesn't do anything at all externally.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#417
General reflection:

As I recall it, our right to privacy is defined by the "reasonable expectation of privacy".

Currently, I see any such "reasonable" expectation to be almost zero.

Therefor, I have to conclude that we have already lost the right to privacy.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is considerably more invasive than PRISM. This system logs HTTP metadata and data (think the address on the envelope and the contents of the envelope), the metadata for 30 days the contents for 3 days. This http data is essentially everything that goes over the wire all of which is then shovelled into a database with a fairly sophisticated (if not pretty) front-end that allows really invasive searches. You can s…

I guess I am mostly confused about whether they have any email content capabilities...and if so, how?

They are tapped into the hubs of internet communication as well as most (if not all) of the major webmail based systems (think Google, Hotmail, Yahoo).

As to the how they are taking feeds directly off major internet routers (the vast majority of traffic will go through a major router at some point particularly if it is international though it's quite possible for a packet sent from one side of your country to another to go international as well).

So yes they do have email content capabilities (if you look at the actual slides they also have a sophisticated filtering system, they can do stuff like "show me emails from iran with word documents attached containing IAEO").

This system is absolutely terrifying, it genuinely is the work of a dystopian sci-fi author from 30 years ago.

----

If you want to get right down in the trenches email is SMTP and POP over TCP/IP (normally), email is fundamentally a human readable text protocol which makes it trivially easy to parse (this was kind of the intention after all) so once they have the captured stream reconstructing the mail is not much harder (if any) than writing a mail client.

You can see an example of SMTP if you open a console/shell and type "telnet smtp.gmail.com 25" and then when it has logged in type HELO the response is just plain text.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#419
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. It has become a bit of a pet peeve of mine recently to see self-aggrandizing comments from users around the net about how "we should have known" and "none of this is new." I'm a practically addicted news j…

First of all: keep the staggering to a minimum. Second: realizing that "we should have known" and "none of this is new" isn't so much about reading news articles and being "plugged in", but rather having an understanding of how the Internet works. To oversimplify greatly, you're essentially playing a very precise game of telephone between around 10-20 different people, and usually about 1-3 different publicly-owned c…

To paraphrase (or is it a direct quote?) Jacob Applebaum, "Quiet, please. Adults are talking."

This is staggering, and to chide others for being staggered is the worst kind of truculence.

More relevant, and useful: What are we going to collectively do about it now that we know, beyond a doubt, what exactly is happening?

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#420
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is overwhelming. Even when you always hear the claims about we knew this was going on, somehow it is still shocking when you see it all laid out infront of you with screenshots and the capabilities described. It has become a bit of a pet peeve of mine recently to see self-aggrandizing comments from users around the net about how "we should have known" and "none of this is new." I'm a practically addicted news j…

For me, personally, it's not about "look how smart I am" as it is genuine surprise that the story actually seems to be sticking this time. I'm glad that people are paying attention, but especially early on, it wasn't entirely clear that Snowden's leaks were substantially different from the leaks that have been coming out of the NSA for years that never got traction in the media.

I think the type of leak is substantially different, the other leaks were all somewhat hard to describe. The Snowden leaks have the names of well known companies in big menacing letters.
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