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Re: undefined

#171

Post by srid68 » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

muyuu wrote: post #122

cpursley wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other ways. There are millions of people in the USA and Europe without passports.

If they are not nationals, they are illegals. If it's not a very long sentence, OP is better off trying that after he's done with it. Maybe ask for asylum, but afterwards.

He is being charged for Sedition which is 8 years in prison. The best thing for him is to escape and i believe even many malaysian muslims will help him to escape as long as he repents for his mistake. People are never cruel only institutions are cruel, because if they are not, they lose control and the consequences are far more than a simple prank.

Re: undefined

#172

Post by serf » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

cahitonur wrote: post #108

serf wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously comparing the difficulty of opening a bank account to the difficulty of losing your freedom and liberty? You know, people did live before banks.. The only reason you think that he doesn't care about going to jail is the fact that he's prioritizing his livelihood. You're conveniently missing the lines where he calls it a mob action. He clearly doesn't agree with the sentence.

Actually, I'm just focusing on the question. He is asking "how can I save my business" not his freedom. Let him think about his own freedom. And when I compare a couple of years in prison to my whole life the answer is clear for me. Escaping the country brings the bonus that he will never be able to see his own country again. As an expat who is away from home for the last 4 years I can easily say that it sucks. Being…

I agree with your first part. Indeed, the question he posed was about his business, and to be concerned for his life, while important, is outside the scope of the question asked.

However, I don't agree with your second part. 4 years in prison isn't just 4 years in prison. It is 4 years in a situation that is widely out of your control, and opens you up to a host of threats that you didn't consider during your 'outside' life. Sure, you can be hit by a car and killed during normal pedestrian action, but it's quite hard to be the victim of prison violence when you're a normal citizen.

Imprisonment is terrible, don't sell it short. It is a completely different world than every day life, including that of an expat, and it very well may stay with him for the rest of life in the form of a crippling physical or mental injury or even death.

He runs a SaaS, not a hot-dog stand. The power of the internet is internationalism and non-locale.

Re: undefined

#173

Post by lettergram » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

shubb wrote: post #24

Depending on how long you are likely to go away, it's probably best do just do the time. Escaping, as others suggested, would mean leaving your life behind, likely living as an illegal elsewhere (without the ability to open a bank account or own a business). If it's probably just a couple of years, it's probably best to sit it out, and resume your life after. You need to hook up with someone you really trust, and giv…

Depends.. I'd run if I had to spend 8 years in prison for example

Re: undefined

#174

Post by moubarak » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

mnazim wrote: post #124

moubarak wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how did i insult you? i'd like to know before outcasting myself.

You insulted him by showing apathy towards his religiously held beliefs for a just law and proportionate punishment for the crime and his dislike for mob justice as you proposed in your earlier post. ---- icebraining, I couldn't have used better words than those.

hasty generalizations, high school stuff. you should learn how to argue.

Re: undefined

#175

Post by tluyben2 » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:21 PM UTC

moubarak wrote: post #114

icebraining wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your post offensive. Please outcast yourself.

how did i insult you? i'd like to know before outcasting myself.

You insulted me as well; I actually got slightly annoyed reading your outcasting post. Something which rarely happens to me on HN. You should respect each other's religion as long as this religion doesn't interfere with the basic structure and functioning of society.

Now you were talking generally, not Malaysian only, which means that your 'rules' interfere with my freedom of speech (which is normal in my society) and that supersedes your religion, whatever it is.

Now as I am a social beast, I personally know many (devout) religious people, muslims, buddhists, catholics, christians and besides my high school religion teacher and in some fanatical news on the tv I haven't heard many people talk like you. Most people I know who are religious, believe in good for all and turning the other cheek. I am an atheist, but sometimes I wish I could believe something like that. If I would tell my good friend Muhammed (who is a hardworking plumber in my village) about this Malaysian guy, he would pray Allah for his release and fulfilling life. He would not feel any 'offensive' thing here. That's how it's supposed to be imho.

Re: undefined

#176

Post by marvin » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:21 PM UTC

cpursley wrote: post #102

mahmud wrote: post #13

Escape the country. Going into a foreign embassy is not gonna do you any good. "The Free World" spies on, and jails its own people, and it will not risk another Mohammad cartoongate helping you. So don't even think about requesting asylum at an embassy. Sell all you own and head to the nearest border/coastal town. Pay off smugglers or fishermen and get the fuck out.

Agreed. You need to leave. Now. Sell your stuff, get currency, use your international connections. It's going to be the hardest thing you've ever done, but liberty is the most important. Who knows what will happen in prison and for how long they will detain you. Also, depending on how technically competent your government is, you need to get all your services offshore now: Wuala for storage (like dropbox - based in S…

This advice doesn't consider OP's situation at all. It isn't the right solution for everyone to drop all friends, family, connections and familiar culture at the drop of a hat. This is the kind of advice that's really easy to give if you happen to be a perpertual traveler yourself, or if you're sitting comfortably in a democratic country with a stable job.

Hopefully OP will have enough information himself to make an educated decision as to whether skipping the country is the right decision.

Re: undefined

#177

Post by simoncpu2 » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:22 PM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #141

cpursley wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. You need to leave. Now. Sell your stuff, get currency, use your international connections. It's going to be the hardest thing you've ever done, but liberty is the most important. Who knows what will happen in prison and for how long they will detain you. Also, depending on how technically competent your government is, you need to get all your services offshore now: Wuala for storage (like dropbox - based in S…

Are you in Singapore? This doesn't make sense - you say you live in a Muslim country? I know Singapore is socially strict, but I thought it was secular. Singapore is big on social harmony. There are laws against offending other cultures and anything considered pornography is illegal. But I think he's in trouble in Malaysia.

You can go to Sabah and pay some fisherman to take you to Palawan, Philippines. Once there, ride a bus or van to go to Puerto Princesa City. From there, you can go to Cebu or Manila and start your life all over again. You can stay in Palawan if you want to, but it's more of a vacation place and it doesn't really have the infrastructure to start an IT business. The Philippines is a 3rd world country, but Filipinos, in general, are quite tolerant of people with different religious and/or sexual orientation.

Re: undefined

#178

Post by moubarak » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:22 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #138

GrinningFool wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone raised where I was raised, I agree with you. As someone firmly rooted in reality - I can't. When we participate in a community (be it religious or otherwise, be it of our own informed choice or not) we are bound by the rules of that community. When we knowingly break the rules of that community, we implicitly accept the potential consequences. No matter how petty or offensive it seems that insulting a reli…

I recognize the fact that there are countries with quite a few frustrated people that would like nothing better than to be able to control the rest of their fellow human beings and to tell them how to live and that in such countries one could easily get in trouble with the law for behavior that is perfectly ordinary elsewhere. My way of dealing with that is to refuse to do business with places that are set up like th…

someone who has just been convicted for offending another religion inside their own country is talking about enlightenment. im loving this.

Re: undefined

#179

Post by Dewie » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:24 PM UTC

alinajaf wrote: post #109

regularguy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you make (negative) comments on religion, sexuality and race, you are bound to offend some people. Maybe it's a matter of opinion. But if he made an unsightly comment to the gay community at the gay parade, he will probably be deemed offensive too.

Offensive enough to be sent to jail with murderers, thieves and rapists? You'd either have to be a ridiculously apologistic liberal or put the mental in fundamentalist to go that far.

Apologistic liberal? I know that term has different interpretations, but I've never seen it being associated with inhibiting free speech in order to not cause offense. It would be pretty silly if "liberal" ended up meaning "without liberty".

Re: undefined

#180

Post by zipppy » Wed, Jul 31, 2013, 2:25 PM UTC

3a0e8ff4e557 wrote: post #83

jacquesm wrote: post #38

How hard is it to keep it alive? Can I do it for you while you get your stuff sorted out? Do you have a decent lawyer? Would that make a difference? Let me know (email in profile), I'll gladly help you if I can. I second the calls to leave your country but I can see that this may not always be an option.

I have a decent lawyer. It isn't hard to keep alive; heck, I've been running it pretty half-assed for the past almost 2 years. Still, I cannot abandon it totally. Also, I don't think it makes enough revenue to warrant hiring anyone to take care of it, I think. I'd make a loss. And since familiarising with the current code base etc. may require a lot of effort, way more effort than anyone would care to dedicate, unles…

If it's your main source of income, it must be making some money. Can you use that to pay someone to take care of it while you're away?

There's got to be some kind of middle ground between 'taking a loss' and 'main source of income'. Even if it's not as much as someone would make in a different job, I bet some people would be willing to help you out for a small stipend.

Good luck!!