Ive one server left in US, cancelling it soon, thats 900/month less going into US economy.
U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
21–30 of 86 posts
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#22Pretty simple way to frame this in a way that Washington can understand: The NSA data collection programs are _job killers_ for American high-tech workers and its most innovative companies.
"Hard working, innovative technology companies are losing out to foreign companies due to this unaccountable, big government program. It's time to reign in this anticompetitive NSA behavior and let American business compete on a level playing field." *formatted for a talking head to use on FOX News/MSNBC/CNN
Can't the NSA spy on foreign operations without any legal oversight, as opposed to spying on domestic operations with "oversight" from a secret court? Both are bad.
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#23I too have switched my personal things and most of our company away from the US. I have helped my friends move to non-US chat services and/or use OTR. I will spend my money on secure (from snooping and the operator) encrypted services outside the US instead. Seeing that we have no rights in the US whatsoever, it is ridiculous to store anything in the United States that could be used in any way at any point in the fut…
Honest question, what makes you think that you will have more rights/privacy by hosting somewhere else? It's been my impression that there has been (comparatively) little backlash within the US regarding foreign data acquisition. Maybe all this attention on the NSA's activities will be the trigger for other countries to create or ramp-up their own data snooping efforts.
For whatever I self-host, I use open source software I trust (and sometimes contribute to). For other services, I either encrypt as much as possible (i.e. encrypted storage, OTR for chat, PGP for email) and accept that anything non-encrypted is virtually public.
I could also host these encrypted things in the US, but here in Europe I have lawful rights, and my government does not torture, nor does it kill citizens who it sees as evil without any due process. I guess it's as much of a boycott as it is preventing a country that does not have my interests at heart from having access to my data and/or metadata.
Note that about a year ago the Dutch government has announced the AIVD (~Dutch NSA/CIA) budget is being cut 40% over the next few years, and defense spending has gone down too.
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Hard working, innovative technology companies are losing out to foreign companies due to this unaccountable, big government program. It's time to reign in this anticompetitive NSA behavior and let American business compete on a level playing field." *formatted for a talking head to use on FOX News/MSNBC/CNN
Can't the NSA spy on foreign operations without any legal oversight, as opposed to spying on domestic operations with "oversight" from a secret court? Both are bad.
Since all of the companies fingered as cooperating actively with PRISM were American companies, the assumption is that while the NSA may spy on foreign companies those companies are not actively cooperating with the NSA and it is therefore (in theory, I suppose) harder for the NSA to get at their data.
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#25I too have switched my personal things and most of our company away from the US. I have helped my friends move to non-US chat services and/or use OTR. I will spend my money on secure (from snooping and the operator) encrypted services outside the US instead. Seeing that we have no rights in the US whatsoever, it is ridiculous to store anything in the United States that could be used in any way at any point in the fut…
Honest question, what makes you think that you will have more rights/privacy by hosting somewhere else? It's been my impression that there has been (comparatively) little backlash within the US regarding foreign data acquisition. Maybe all this attention on the NSA's activities will be the trigger for other countries to create or ramp-up their own data snooping efforts.
That you don't know if another country is monitoring as deeply as the U.S. isn't a good reason for considering the U.S., who we know is monitoring as deeply as the U.S.:)
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honest question, what makes you think that you will have more rights/privacy by hosting somewhere else? It's been my impression that there has been (comparatively) little backlash within the US regarding foreign data acquisition. Maybe all this attention on the NSA's activities will be the trigger for other countries to create or ramp-up their own data snooping efforts.
For whatever I self-host, I use open source software I trust (and sometimes contribute to). For other services, I either encrypt as much as possible (i.e. encrypted storage, OTR for chat, PGP for email) and accept that anything non-encrypted is virtually public. I could also host these encrypted things in the US, but here in Europe I have lawful rights, and my government does not torture, nor does it kill citizens wh…
I'm sorry, but you are displaying a remarkable level of naiveté about how the world works.
I'm not excusing the NSA, but the reason why the USA is exceptional is precisely BECAUSE things like this are an aberration and not accepted as a matter of course. We discuss them as a society and change our government when it gets out of line.
Lets not forget that it was a democratically elected government in Europe that started WWII. And killed millions for nothing more than being born who they were. Systematically, and with the full acquiescence of the favored population.
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#27Pretty simple way to frame this in a way that Washington can understand: The NSA data collection programs are _job killers_ for American high-tech workers and its most innovative companies.
This is probably the most effective way to turn politicians around on the issue. As sad as it may be, a "jobs vs. security" debate is much more competitive in politics than "4th amendment vs. security" debate.
The more times you can fit "NSA" and "job-killing" into the same sentence, the more politicians will start to question it.
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#28This is why in my recent rant about how Microsoft could re-establish its relevance [1], one recommendation was that Microsoft differentiate itself as the only tech titan to champion a decentralized cloud. I fairly strongly feel that would be a competitive advantage.
(Of course if all self-managed security implemented on Microsoft operating systems can be subverted by the NSA, it's a moot point.)
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#29After SOPA, it became clear that the U.S. info sector could no longer neglect its lobbying efforts in Washington. The MPAA and RIAA represent comparatively tiny (in terms of revenue) interests but were only thwarted by the unpredictable (and unreliable) intervention of the public. Now this. The info sector has become big industry and is going to play a correspondingly big role in U.S. politics going forward. They're…
We need a well-organized lobbying effort to support the interests of United States internet companies. Those survey numbers are actually astounding.
The most surprising thing about lobbying and donation efforts is that they aren't really all that expensive. All it takes is a few hundred thousand to a million to swing a tight election. The amounts aren't that large. Maybe a crowdfunding campaign for a Free Internet PAC?
Re: U.S. cloud firms face backlash from NSA spy programs
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Hard working, innovative technology companies are losing out to foreign companies due to this unaccountable, big government program. It's time to reign in this anticompetitive NSA behavior and let American business compete on a level playing field." *formatted for a talking head to use on FOX News/MSNBC/CNN
Can't the NSA spy on foreign operations without any legal oversight, as opposed to spying on domestic operations with "oversight" from a secret court? Both are bad.
> Can't the NSA spy on foreign operations without any legal oversight
Yeah. It would be kind of bizarre to have a military signals intelligence service where spying on foreign electronic communications was some kind of exceptional activity.
The whole point of the NSA is spying on foreign operations. The legal restrictions involving a "secret court" (the two courts themselves aren't secret, though their proceedings tend to be) for oversight are to prevent the abuse of the "foreign intelligence" excuse as a backdoor for blanket domestic surveillance.
Or at least, that was the original purpose of FISA after exactly that kind of abuse. With various "War on Terror" era changes, its arguable that the purpose of the oversight has been reversed so that it now serves as a form of legal cover for the abuse of the "foreign intelligence" excuse as a backdoor for blanket domestic surveillance.