Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now • Hacker News Board

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#221

Post by madaxe » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 8:35 AM UTC

rfctr wrote: post #111

madaxe wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've ever been near a russian land border, you'd know sneaking ain't an option - they're still very much into their 30 foot razor wire fences, and mile wide minefields. AFAIK, the only borders which aren't demarked as such are those which ramble across incredibly inhospitable desert, which serves the same purpose as razor wire and mines.

> 30 foot razor wire fences, and mile wide minefields. LOL OMFG! MILE WIDE !!! MINEFIELDS !!! May be the confusion is with USA-Mexico border? o_O

No, I knew exactly where I was, each and every time I drove into Russia. Pretty hard to confuse with the USA.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#222

Post by DominikR » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 9:09 AM UTC

madaxe wrote: post #220

DominikR wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest you look up Russia and the length of its border on Google Maps and then think again about the feasibility of razor wire fences and mile wide minefields.

I'd suggest you go there and see with your own eyes? I'm not sure what your point is. Feasibility isn't really something the USSR ever factored in.

Do you have any proof for your hilarious claims? In numerous Wikipedia articles about Russias border there was no mention of fences and minefields as current security measures, other than in some conflict zones like Georgia.

Also, all that I see on Google Maps satellite images is farmland without any visible security on both sides of the border.

(for example: https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d8021!2d...)

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#223

Post by madaxe » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 10:01 AM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #222

madaxe wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest you go there and see with your own eyes? I'm not sure what your point is. Feasibility isn't really something the USSR ever factored in.

Do you have any proof for your hilarious claims? In numerous Wikipedia articles about Russias border there was no mention of fences and minefields as current security measures, other than in some conflict zones like Georgia. Also, all that I see on Google Maps satellite images is farmland without any visible security on both sides of the border. (for example: https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d8021!…

Apart from having fucking been there, and having photos of such, no. Admittedly, my experiences have been Ukraine/Russia, Belarus/Russia, Kaz/Russia, Latvia/Russia, and in each and every case there's been an exclusion zone. The "farmland" you see is in no-mans land, between security fences, which have mines along their inside faces at a minimum.

Re: the link you've posted, that's one of the aforementioned "so inhospitable it doesn't matter" areas. I've been to Aktobe (just down the road from your link), and it's indescribable how butt-fuck nowhere it is. ~£20 for a salad that wouldn't fill a mouse, but £0.02 for a bottle of vodka and a steak. Oh and there's a bowling alley with DDR. Go figure. Nothing grows out there. 52 C in the summer, -30 C in the winter. An over-land trip by foot through that area is death. Here are two photos of that neck of the woods - welcome to check the EXIF. http://imgur.com/kFvjXHy,B16ieLf

The other outstanding feature of Russian borders is the wreckage of failed crossing attempts - there's always the winning combination of burned out cars in fields surrounding any crossing point, along with a cemetery for those who didn't make it across. They take their border security seriously. Getting a gun pointed at you is standard procedure.

Again, you're more than welcome to argue with someone who's actually been across Russian land borders, on many occasions, but that's your prerogative entirely.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#224

Post by DominikR » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 11:42 AM UTC

madaxe wrote: post #223

DominikR wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any proof for your hilarious claims? In numerous Wikipedia articles about Russias border there was no mention of fences and minefields as current security measures, other than in some conflict zones like Georgia. Also, all that I see on Google Maps satellite images is farmland without any visible security on both sides of the border. (for example: https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d8021!…

Apart from having fucking been there, and having photos of such, no. Admittedly, my experiences have been Ukraine/Russia, Belarus/Russia, Kaz/Russia, Latvia/Russia, and in each and every case there's been an exclusion zone. The "farmland" you see is in no-mans land, between security fences, which have mines along their inside faces at a minimum. Re: the link you've posted, that's one of the aforementioned "so inhospi…

What are you talking about, there is clearly ongoing agricultural activities on both sides of the border!

Ukraine/Russia (farmland): https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d4036!2d...

Belarus/Russia (nothing): https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d3707!2d...

So lets recap: You are unable to produce any proof. Nothing can be seen on satellite imagery. There is no mention of minefields and fences on Wikipedia or any other credible source.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#225

Post by grimtrigger » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 1:31 PM UTC

osmsiberiano wrote: post #205

grimtrigger wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that Putin would be happy to have Snowden break the agreement, as long as he doesn't go to the press and take credit for it. Putin's government has been working constantly to undermine America's foreign influence, and these leaks go a long way towards doing that.

> Putin's government has been working constantly to undermine America's foreign influence Can you elaborate on that? Any concrete examples of how they were doing this? From the same Putin's regime we hear the same about the US, although just guesses, no facts. I'm curious how the west sees that.

I have no doubt its true for the US too. They're competing for influence in many parts of the globe.

Its not a rigorous example, but I think the front page of RT (the Russian - state backed media outlet) is a good example. Most of the US based stories are highly critical of the US government. It's also no coincidence that Julian Assange has his own show on RT.

I also believe Russia's backing of Assad is mostly an attempt to block Western influence in the middle east. But there's probably a number of reason and thats just one.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#226

Post by madaxe » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 2:00 PM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #224

madaxe wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from having fucking been there, and having photos of such, no. Admittedly, my experiences have been Ukraine/Russia, Belarus/Russia, Kaz/Russia, Latvia/Russia, and in each and every case there's been an exclusion zone. The "farmland" you see is in no-mans land, between security fences, which have mines along their inside faces at a minimum. Re: the link you've posted, that's one of the aforementioned "so inhospi…

What are you talking about, there is clearly ongoing agricultural activities on both sides of the border! Ukraine/Russia (farmland): https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d4036!2d... Belarus/Russia (nothing): https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d3707!2d... So lets recap: You are unable to produce any proof. Nothing can be seen on satellite imagery. There is no mention of minefields and f…

Yeah, as I said, the farmland is within no-mans-land. It's farmed by permit holders who are allowed to go within there - usually subsistence farmers, some (no official figures, but met a few) of whom are stateless and have been trapped in the exclusion zone since glasnost. There are minefields wrapped around the security fences. You're welcome to go for a walk across there, and see what happens.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#227

Post by DominikR » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 3:05 PM UTC

madaxe wrote: post #226

DominikR wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about, there is clearly ongoing agricultural activities on both sides of the border! Ukraine/Russia (farmland): https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d4036!2d... Belarus/Russia (nothing): https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m4!1m3!1d3707!2d... So lets recap: You are unable to produce any proof. Nothing can be seen on satellite imagery. There is no mention of minefields and f…

Yeah, as I said, the farmland is within no-mans-land. It's farmed by permit holders who are allowed to go within there - usually subsistence farmers, some (no official figures, but met a few) of whom are stateless and have been trapped in the exclusion zone since glasnost. There are minefields wrapped around the security fences. You're welcome to go for a walk across there, and see what happens.

Again no proof - is it so hard to show me on Google Maps/Earth the fence that supposedly surrounds all of Russia?

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#228

Post by antitrust » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 3:57 PM UTC

spiritplumber wrote: post #212

jivatmanx wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War is politics by other means. When a war ends without the politics being settled, the seed of conflict remains. However, most either people lack this longer term vision and falsely perceive a physical wins as an ultimate "victory", or don't care because they won't be around then. "This isn't a peace, it's a twenty year truce!" - Ferdinand Foch, regarding the Treaty of Versailles As an aside, the U.S's failure to pr…

The various three letter agencies had no interest in correctly predicting the USSR's collapse as it'd get them defunded. I'm not saying that there was a conspiracy to not forewarn the various US administrations, I'm just saying that all the analysts slightl skewed things the other way, and the effect accumulated.

> The various three letter agencies had no interest in correctly predicting the USSR's collapse as it'd get them defunded.

You make a really good point here.

It's not that there's a conspiracy, or they censored themselves. There's simply zero reward in pursuing any path that leads to the conclusion that one's job is obsolete or soon will be.

With a minor caveat, I guess. Those who can figure it out without much effort will then be those who seek new employment before it happens. It's hard to predict these things however.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#229

Post by 7s » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

JamesArgo wrote: post #148

7s wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always amazed how the public opinion of putin ranges from "evil dictator" to "clever politician".

To become an evil dictator, it's often necessary to be a clever politician.

I had trouble putting this in words. By "clever politician" I mean people seeing Putin on TV or something and saying, "Ah, thats very clever" or even "Pretty amusing how he dealt with/did x". Media coverage in Central Europe is always very critical towards Putin, and while their stories may be distorted in some respects, I still believe them about many civilian rights beeing violated under his influence.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#230

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Jul 25, 2013, 8:20 PM UTC

antitrust wrote: post #181

pjmlp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Snowden has lots of courage for doing what he did, specially since it is the type of revelation that may cost him his life. I have been downvoted already on the parent post, but coming from an European country that experienced dictatorship for 41 years, I have a tendency to not believe in politicians. Many fellow Europeans had to endure similar governments in the last century. So how could in the land of free…

What should we have in place of politicians? It's a serious question.

I really don't know.

However tries to change the system, either becomes one of them or ends up being forced to leave with consequences from not playing with the rest of the gang.