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Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

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Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#181

Post by antitrust »

pjmlp wrote: post #41
zepolud wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's safe to assume that most of us accepted that the mass surveillance programs existed. This doesn't diminish the importance of what Snowden did. It was more of an emperor-has-no-clothes moment than some unexpected, shocking revelation. It forced a lot of people to stop avoiding the problem and to actually start talking about it openly.

I think Snowden has lots of courage for doing what he did, specially since it is the type of revelation that may cost him his life. I have been downvoted already on the parent post, but coming from an European country that experienced dictatorship for 41 years, I have a tendency to not believe in politicians. Many fellow Europeans had to endure similar governments in the last century. So how could in the land of free…

What should we have in place of politicians?

It's a serious question.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#182

Post by hannibal5 »

teleological wrote: post #163
hannibal5 wrote: post #125

I just want to point out that if Snowden would have been spying for Russia or China, he would not have any these problems. Countries don't return people who spy for them. His knowledge is very likely still valuable and he could turn into traitor any day and Russia would take good care of him. He would get money, pension, citizenship and nice Datcha to live in. He is this predicament because he has not given up his pr…

The notion that defectors are lavishly rewarded -- a notion that Snowden encouraged in his comment about palaces and petting a phoenix -- is at odds with the historical record. Consider Kim Philby. After the act of defection has been milked for propaganda, the defector is dispatched to guarded obscurity. It's hard to know what's really happening between Snowden and his hosts. The notion that Russia's hands are legall…

Kim Philby spied for political reasons, not for money as were most spies who fled to USSR. They all got KGB pensions and medals.

Snowden has been accompanied by Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks. He is not alone and isolated with Russians.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#183

Post by rada »

twoodfin wrote: post #167
rada wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York Times media correspondent David Carr: “If you add up the pulling of news organization phone records (The Associated Press), the tracking of individual reporters (Fox News), and the effort by the current administration to go after sources (seven instances and counting in which a government official has been criminally charged with leaking classified information to the news media), suggesting that there is a w…

Now you've moved the goal posts from claims the U.S. "straight kills journalists" to some chilling effects from a variety of leak prosecutions. One can think the latter are a bad thing without drawing a parallel to regimes that murder journalists they don't like !

The killing of journalists may be the most dramatic measure in the context of freedom of the press but it's hardly the only one, and it is absolutely fair to discuss the whole picture. For example, on this Freedom Of Press Index, Russia is far ahead of China which does not kill journalists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index#Rankings_an...

I would also like to address your "some chilling effects" comment. Investigative reporters are only as good as their sources and the sources have been silenced. That's a nuclear winter, not "some chilling effects".

Meta: is it really necessary to imply that whomever you are responding to is lacking in intellectual capacity? What's with all the "would it stretch your intellect to...", "one can think x without drawing a parallel to y..." and so on. If your arguments are strong, let them stand on their own.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#184

Post by keevie »

antitrust wrote: post #180
Everlag wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh goddammit! I thought we were over Russia and the US doing that cold war bullshit. Seriously, if you're going to fight a war fight an economic war, much less destructive to other people than the little proxy wars the big boys seems to love so much.

Wars don't end until the underlying issue is settled. In this case it is very much as it was in 1914, which is "which large conglomerate of regional interests will rule the world," with participants being Russia, Europe and the USA. In the intervening years, we have added China, India and South America to the competition. But otherwise... "same as it ever was."

same as it ever was

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#186

Post by mpyne »

petercooper wrote: post #90
narrator wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Russia it's more about showing the world that they are the only country that can't be intimidated by the U.S and thus that they are the only hold out against American world domination. Any other country would have handed him over eventually. I'm sure the Chinese and Central Asian governments are thinking that without the Russians to counterbalance things geopolitically they'd have to all be client states of the U…

I'm not sure China would care. They'd just become the second superpower (which, I would argue, they already are). Their economy is much larger than Russia's, their trade relations diverse (the US isn't even their #1 trading partner), their land more habitable (though smaller), their technology better, they have a large army and nuclear arsenal, and they're in an ideal location to put up significant resistance against…

Plus China is in a great position geologically (if that makes sense). The Asia-Pacific region is only going to get more important as the years go on, and China is right in the thick of it all, while Russia is camped out with Siberia.

Who knows though, once the Arctic ice sheets melt maybe that position will become more important than it appears.

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#187

Post by mpyne »

Amadou wrote: post #121
mkup wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because https://twitter.com/ChapmanAnna/status/352480982101798913 :)

Is it me, or does anyone else think that the really surreal thing here is not that Anna Chapman "proposed" to Snowden on twitter but that Chapman is even on twitter in the first place?

Or that she's proposing to someone who, last I heard, was still in a committed relationship with someone else. :P

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#188

Post by mpyne »

andreypopp wrote: post #171
jitbit wrote: post #96

I'm Russian. This is done only to annoy the US. Russian gov-t has nothing to do with freedom of speech etc. It's just to tease the White House.

How the fact that you are Russian makes you know why it was done?

Are you saying he's have the same level of insight if he was from Saskatchewan, Canada?

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#189

Post by alan_cx »

tootie wrote: post #174
alan_cx wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 years for alleged treason and endangering the lives of Americans? Some how I think not.

He hasn't been charged with treason and if he were, he'd be acquitted.

So, the fact he hasn't means he will not?

And what crystal ball are you using to predict the out come of a hypothetical trial?

Re: Snowden asylum still under review, stays in airport for now

#190

Post by wellboy »

brown9-2 wrote: post #97
wellboy wrote: post #26

Does that mean he accepted the demands of Russia of not being able to disclose any further information anymore?

This presumes that the Russian government actually cares about that supposed demand.

Oh, I meant that Snowden can't disclose any further information about the NSA, which was given as a condition by Russia if Snowden wants Russian asylum.
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