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Mono 3.2

mono-project.com

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Re: Mono 3.2

#41

Post by toyg »

coldtea wrote: post #29
bad_user wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a wild generalization which I don't think it's true. The "Linux community" you speak of is a loud minority of mentally deranged folks. Mono never succeeded on Linux because it always felt like a second-class citizen on the desktop and it's basically useless for server-side apps, an area where the Linux ecosystem shines. Python is popular on Linux because Python can be used for everything, including desktop app…

> That's a wild generalization which I don't think it's true. The "Linux community" you speak of is a loud minority of mentally deranged folks. Ironic, because then you go to state: > Mono never succeeded on Linux because it always felt like a second-class citizen on the desktop Mono had full GTK support. Tons of popular Gnome apps were written in Mono, music apps, photo viewers, desktop search etc. There was nothing…

> Mono had full GTK support.

And meagre QT support.

> Tons of popular Gnome apps were written in Mono

And very few KDE apps.

> There was nothing "second-class citizen" about it.

Except that it simply didn't belong to half the desktops (i.e. ones running KDE, which might actually account for more than half the deployed Linux desktops, considering it's long been the most popular Enterprise choice).

> The same tech powers 99% of server-side apps on Windows

... where PHP/Python/Java/Ruby are second-class citizens. To each its own, I guess.

Re: Mono 3.2

#42

Post by boothead »

endeavour wrote: post #36
boothead wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my experience... I've been battling for several days now to try and get mono, monodevelop and F# installed from git (admittedly I'm trying to do that using a prefix argument to the various configure steps). My overwhelming impression is that linux simply isnt in mono's critical path anymore.

http://thecodedecanter.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/installing-m...

These are some of the instructions I'm following. Thanks for the link though :-)

Re: Mono 3.2

#43

Post by i386 »

bad_user wrote: post #28
i386 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mono never succeeded on Linux because it always felt like a second-class citizen on the desktop Err, I'm not sure where you were from 2005 to 2009... There were apps like Tomboy that were included in GNOME releases that were 100% written in C# and run by Mono. GTK# was one of the most complete bindings ever written for GNOME/GTK. If you've ever written a GObject or GTK based app you would know its not easy to do in…

On desktop Linux, Mono's direct competition is not C++, but rather Python. Also, Mono apps were replaced in Ubuntu/Debian because of Mono's large footprint, both in memory and in disk usage (until recently, Ubuntu has been constrained for a long time to the size of one CD). Also development died and these distros are distributing by default apps that are actively developed and maintained.

> On desktop Linux, Mono's direct competition is not C++, but rather Python.

And the IDE support still sucks and the bindings are patchy at best (but admittedly better now because there is only 1 person working on GTK compared to the ten or fifteen who contributed back in the day and they release a lot less).

> Also, Mono apps were replaced in Ubuntu/Debian because of Mono's large footprint, both in memory and in disk usage

Thinly veiled bullshit if you ask me. If they were worried about package sizes, there were a lot of other things (like sample photos, movies, music, Open Office bloat, shipping multiple library versions, etc) that they could have cut back on if they got serious.

Regardless, the FOSS community shot themselves in the foot by jettisoning one of the most complete platforms that actually had decent developer tools.

Re: Mono 3.2

#44

Post by icantthinkofone »

zanny wrote: post #5
UK-AL wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes thats how I feel. .Net has some great languages C#, F# etc but I like to feel platform independent.

How is Mono not platform independent? It doesn't have a lot of .net features from Windows like windows forms, but it has the entire C# language and their own implementations of xna, etc. The only concern I would have is that Microsoft might try to crush Xamarin at some point, but I wouldn't count that likely, Mono is their ticket to keep .net from looking like anti-competitive platform lock in.

Mono is Windows encroachment onto nix. It's a square peg forced into a round hole. It's trying to force fit its tools, something that works good for Windows, onto nix but *nix tools are superior in every way.

I wish I could go on but I've had this argument before.

Re: Mono 3.2

#45

Post by jnbiche »

coldtea wrote: post #27
yapcguy wrote: post #2

I like C# and I'm impressed with Mono but there is just something not right. It might be irrational but knowing that Microsoft's DNA is everywhere makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm also not happy that Linux is a second class citizen - there is no Xamarin Studio for Linux, the latest version of MonoDevelop is not packaged for Linux, and the latest version of Mono 3.2 is only packaged for Mac as an easy download. The id…

> I like C# and I'm impressed with Mono but there is just something not right. It might be irrational but knowing that Microsoft's DNA is everywhere makes me feel uncomfortable. (...) I'm also not happy that Linux is a second class citizen The first kind of thinking is what got us into the second kind of situation. Enjoy ...Vala.

Vala is an incredible project. With a relatively small number of contributors, it's turned into an easy language to work with, that can compile into shared libraries with automatic bindings for Python, Ruby, Lua, etc., and get near C performance. GTK bindings are pretty complete. With some effort (I hear -- never tried it), it can even run on Windows and OSX. Vala may be one of the most underrated Linux projects around.

What's wrong with Vala?

Re: Mono 3.2

#46

Post by migueldeicaza »

fhd2 wrote: post #37
sambeau wrote: post #31

Mono is HUGE thanks to Unity3D.[1] I suspect that C#/Mono has become the de-facto second development language/environment for iOS thanks to Unity3D (an irony that doesn't escape me). It's certainly what all the iOS games programmers I know personally use (and I know a lot). Wikipedia have Unity down as having over 1 million developers developing for iOS, Android, Windows, Blackberry 10, OS X, Linux, web browsers, Fla…

And Unity3D is huge thanks to XNA (which was highly popular among amateur game developers) and the demise thereof, I think. Quite ironic indeed, makes me wonder how things would have turned out if .NET hadn't been standarised.

Unity and XNA are very different.

XNA is a very basic library to roll your own game engine.

Unity is a game engine that handles scenes, game objects, physics, animations, complex 3d animations and very sophisticated graphics effects all blended together in a powerful IDE.

XNA is a hammer and nails, Unity is a house.

Re: Mono 3.2

#47

Post by pan69 »

sambeau wrote: post #31

Mono is HUGE thanks to Unity3D.[1] I suspect that C#/Mono has become the de-facto second development language/environment for iOS thanks to Unity3D (an irony that doesn't escape me). It's certainly what all the iOS games programmers I know personally use (and I know a lot). Wikipedia have Unity down as having over 1 million developers developing for iOS, Android, Windows, Blackberry 10, OS X, Linux, web browsers, Fla…

Xamarin?

Re: Mono 3.2

#48

Post by jlgreco »

coldtea wrote: post #27
yapcguy wrote: post #2

I like C# and I'm impressed with Mono but there is just something not right. It might be irrational but knowing that Microsoft's DNA is everywhere makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm also not happy that Linux is a second class citizen - there is no Xamarin Studio for Linux, the latest version of MonoDevelop is not packaged for Linux, and the latest version of Mono 3.2 is only packaged for Mac as an easy download. The id…

> I like C# and I'm impressed with Mono but there is just something not right. It might be irrational but knowing that Microsoft's DNA is everywhere makes me feel uncomfortable. (...) I'm also not happy that Linux is a second class citizen The first kind of thinking is what got us into the second kind of situation. Enjoy ...Vala.

> The first kind of thinking is what got us into the second kind of situation.

Or, the current situation is a vindication of that sort of thinking.

Re: Mono 3.2

#49

Post by yulaow »

i386 wrote: post #25
bad_user wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a wild generalization which I don't think it's true. The "Linux community" you speak of is a loud minority of mentally deranged folks. Mono never succeeded on Linux because it always felt like a second-class citizen on the desktop and it's basically useless for server-side apps, an area where the Linux ecosystem shines. Python is popular on Linux because Python can be used for everything, including desktop app…

> Mono never succeeded on Linux because it always felt like a second-class citizen on the desktop Err, I'm not sure where you were from 2005 to 2009... There were apps like Tomboy that were included in GNOME releases that were 100% written in C# and run by Mono. GTK# was one of the most complete bindings ever written for GNOME/GTK. If you've ever written a GObject or GTK based app you would know its not easy to do in…

For gtk at the moment the "main" language is becoming Vala, who is more... mh, trusted than mono and strongly more supported by all the gtk developers

Re: Mono 3.2

#50

Post by yulaow »

jnbiche wrote: post #45
coldtea wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like C# and I'm impressed with Mono but there is just something not right. It might be irrational but knowing that Microsoft's DNA is everywhere makes me feel uncomfortable. (...) I'm also not happy that Linux is a second class citizen The first kind of thinking is what got us into the second kind of situation. Enjoy ...Vala.

Vala is an incredible project. With a relatively small number of contributors, it's turned into an easy language to work with, that can compile into shared libraries with automatic bindings for Python, Ruby, Lua, etc., and get near C performance. GTK bindings are pretty complete. With some effort (I hear -- never tried it), it can even run on Windows and OSX. Vala may be one of the most underrated Linux projects arou…

the problem is that Vala is strongly linked with only gtk making impossible to use it with others ui libraries.
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