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The Forbidden Island

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Re: The Forbidden Island

#171

Post by bkmartin »

[deleted] wrote: post #162
edvinbesic wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your comment is what's "wrong" with the world. You are applying your western values onto a completely foreign culture. Modern medicine? I'm sure after having survived for that long, they are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. You want to give them jeans and t-shirts too? Maybe the gift of starbucks? It's the opposite of a zoo that the op is talking about.

[deleted]

Who cares if their civilization is 65,000 years old or 2,000 years old. They have clearly indicated, as a matter of their own free will, that they are not interested in our big ships, little ships, helicopters, cameras, or anything else they've seen of us. So why do WE have some moral authority or responsibility to show them "what they're missing". Your perspective is relative to your own life. In order to "inform" them of their options we'd have to basically invade their space, go against their free will, and would probably extinguish most of the population in the process. Once again, as the OP said... LEAVE THEM ALONE!

Re: The Forbidden Island

#172

Post by moogleii »

[deleted] wrote: post #162
edvinbesic wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your comment is what's "wrong" with the world. You are applying your western values onto a completely foreign culture. Modern medicine? I'm sure after having survived for that long, they are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. You want to give them jeans and t-shirts too? Maybe the gift of starbucks? It's the opposite of a zoo that the op is talking about.

[deleted]

They're part of the Andamanese people, of which there is data (from the surrounding islands described in the article you read). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andamanese

Also, if it's no one's call to determine whether they leave or not, why would it be anyone's call to unilaterally interject into their society? Besides, I figure if some of those people do really want to leave, they can set up camp near the beach/wreck unarmed (probably at the risk of civil war, but hey, it's their call). One of us will probably notice eventually.

And to build on that, if you really want to give them free choice, rather than going into their island to forcibly "enlighten" them, build them a removed, but easily reachable dock in the reef/wreck or something like that. From there you can do all sorts of things. A mini library, a vessel, etc. Though I wonder if any of them have even bothered to explore the extant wreck.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#173

Post by pandler »

aaron695 wrote: post #142
geuis wrote: post #45

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…

This sort of comment is exactly what is wrong what the world. What is your expertise in this area? Are you a anthropologist?? I suspect you are just one of these sick people who like the idea mini zoos with humans in them. These are human beings. They deserve access to modern medicines like the rest of us of the world even if you lose this precious zoo. How are their women treated? That is the ones who don't die in c…

That's a little presumptuous, don't you think? What gave you the impression that these people need to be saved, and from what? You're absolutely right. These are human beings. Treat them like human beings, not pitiful beings that you need to save because they don't have C-sections and cars and Xanax and lawyers. Stop acting like you know what is best for them. What is your expertise in this area?

If you are concerned about their health, then it is best that we stay away anyway. History (and even this article) has taught us that isolated cultures are incredibly susceptible to our diseases (a.k.a. diseases they have never had contact with), and often times the results are fatal.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#174

Post by celticninja »

aaron695 wrote: post #142
geuis wrote: post #45

I'm pretty late to leaving a comment, so it won't get a lot of exposure. Let's just leave these people the fuck alone. What threat are they under? Curious assholes like us. There are probably less than 1000 people on that island, all descended from people tens of thousands of years ago. There are more people than that that visit an Apple store on a Tuesday before 2pm. Leave them alone. We don't need to assuage our 10…

This sort of comment is exactly what is wrong what the world. What is your expertise in this area? Are you a anthropologist?? I suspect you are just one of these sick people who like the idea mini zoos with humans in them. These are human beings. They deserve access to modern medicines like the rest of us of the world even if you lose this precious zoo. How are their women treated? That is the ones who don't die in c…

they have survived there for 65000 years, what are you going to bring themthat will ensure they are still there in another 65000 years? Nothing.

You want to bring them medicine, but with that comes illnesses they have never been exposed to, you want to bring them food, excellent take along obesity with you. You want them to have access to modern amenities that they have never required but could become dependent on.

Tell you what go drop a couple of crates of jack daniles and few 1000 packs of marlboro and some mcdonalds just so they know what they are missing out on.

There is a vast difference between these people and their society and North Korea. In NK the ruling elite have access to everything youmention and the general population do not. On this island they all have equal access to the same stuff, sure some tribal leader may get the "big bit of chicken" or first choice when it comes to games night, but there is not the inequality that exists in NK.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#175

Post by DanBC »

johnchristopher wrote: post #103
barking wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if they have a brutal dictator there? Or slavery? Or sexual abuse (like on pitcairn island)? On balance though, I think all countries should leave one another alone. Foreign intervention frequently seems to do more harm than good. These people though are now living in a constructed reality like 'The truman Show', we just haven't put the cameras in yet.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none. What can they trade ? Knowledge about their way of living, genomic studies, dieting habits, linguistic analysis, anthropological studies of they way they represent the world. Last both are really dangerous to them because those interactions will alter their culture in significant ways. The first one are highly valuable.* What can we trade ? A lot. What can we trade that…

> What can they trade ? [...] genomic studies

and interesting genes will be stolen from them and patented.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#176

Post by king_jester »

Anderkent wrote: post #148
king_jester wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, and it's a problem! We should be doing everything we can so that people finally STOP DYING. There is a difference between dying as a result of problems in our society and dying as the inevitable result of having been born. Societies generally have fix their own issues, other people cannot do it for them. As outsiders who know nothing of the society of the people living on this island, we cannot and should not…

>dying as the inevitable result of having been born Dying is not the inevitable result of having been born (or rather, dying before the heat death of the universe is not). >As outsiders who know nothing of the society of the people living on this island, we cannot and should not attempt to change their society to a way we feel more appropriate, that is literally genocide. Genocide: ..any of the following acts committ…

> Genocide: ..any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

> (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

> It's definitely not literally genocide.

That is such an incomplete definition of genocide. No doubt genocide commonly is used to refer to physical violence, but cultural genocide is a real and well documented phenomenon. Pulling a dictionary definition of a large concept like this is insulting and is a farce.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide

Re: The Forbidden Island

#177

Post by huherto »

This is fascinating.

What about genetic diversity? With only 1000 people can they keep reproducing without long term effects? I can't believe they have been isolated for over 60,000 years.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#178

Post by jcnnghm »

bennyg wrote: post #143
pilom wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would assume they have a better quality of life than the majority of the planet" I'd agree with you that they probably have a more enjoyable day to day experience, however I also would bet that they have an infant mortality rate that is astronomical even by 3rd world standards. And that they have an average life expectancy which isn't hard to beat in the 3rd world. I'm not saying that these 2 things justify us for…

The United States is 35th in infant mortality ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mor... ) - and the US is 33rd in life expectancy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expec... ). You just said you didn't know their two statistics in those categories, but a hunch may be enough to go in and shake things up for them.

Of course, many other countries cook the infant mortality books be not reporting premature babies that die shortly after birth or are "hopeless" because they don't have the medical tech that the US does. Consequently, that skews US life expectancy down.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#179

Post by jljljl »

johnchristopher wrote: post #103
barking wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if they have a brutal dictator there? Or slavery? Or sexual abuse (like on pitcairn island)? On balance though, I think all countries should leave one another alone. Foreign intervention frequently seems to do more harm than good. These people though are now living in a constructed reality like 'The truman Show', we just haven't put the cameras in yet.

Commerce with all nations, alliance with none. What can they trade ? Knowledge about their way of living, genomic studies, dieting habits, linguistic analysis, anthropological studies of they way they represent the world. Last both are really dangerous to them because those interactions will alter their culture in significant ways. The first one are highly valuable.* What can we trade ? A lot. What can we trade that…

The first paragraph reads disturbingly like the reason we should make contact with them is because the people themselves are resources to be harvested.

Phrased like this, it's a really good reason why we should not make contact, because ultimately the primary thing we would gain from such contact is exploiting the people themselves.

Re: The Forbidden Island

#180

Post by ekianjo »

Ygg2 wrote: post #167
ekianjo wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much social unrest in the past 50 years in all developed countries where inequalities have been growing when everyone gets richer. And wealth is not a Lake. It does not run dry. You can create wealth. If wealth could not be created we would be super poor by now with 7 billion people on the planet compared to 100 years ago. But it's the exact opposite, we are hundred time richer than 100 years ago. When everyone e…

Not much unrest? That claim seems dubious. What are your standards for not much unrest? I never said it is a like a lake. I meant an actual lake. Lake was example how inequalities lead to richest people making policies that don't impact them. That is the biggest threat income inequality may present to any society. Money is like gravity/mass. The more money you have the more money you attract. You may create wealth, b…

Notice the "tend to" != "are". Obviously there are other factors at work. But statistically speaking, or as a rule of thumb, growing economies are clearly leading to more stable countries.
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