Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

m.guardian.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 222 posts

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#211

Post by ambientwhsiper »

samstave wrote: post #160
tokenadult wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Martin Luther King, Jr. took a greater risk than that. So did the several freedom fighters in Taiwan I know personally, some of whom did hard prison time for leading peaceful public protests before Taiwan democratized. It takes people with a lot of courage to change tough situations.

You are aware that MLK was assassinated by the USG, are you not? Anyone saying that Snowden should be in the US "awaiting trial" is a naive utter moron.

So, he asks for asylum in the country where they just convicted their own whistle-blower after he's been dead for 4 years. And why is he dead? Well, he died in jail under very suspicious circumstances. This makes Snowden a naive utter moron.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#212

Post by s_q_b »

pvnick wrote: post #3

"Further, no intelligence service - not even our own - has the capacity to compromise the secrets I continue to protect. While it has not been reported in the media, one of my specializations was to teach our people at DIA how to keep such information from being compromised even in the highest threat counter-intelligence environments (i.e. China). You may rest easy knowing I cannot be coerced into revealing that info…

It's definitely the Defense Intelligence Agency. They do a lot of intelligence collection.

I'm disturbed by Snowden's grandiosity in those statements. He fits the personality type interrogators would call a "grand egoist." He exaggerates his individual importance and skills to the point of self-delusion.

Ironically, this package of traits is often found in people of extraordinary skill. He has managed to abscond from the country with thousands of our deepest secrets, and prevent his own capture amidst the biggest manhunt in the history of the world.

But at the same time, he seems to be losing his grip under the pressure. There simply is no way that an individual can guarantee he or she won't give away information under threat of torture or under the manipulation of interrogation. The secrets live in his head, and the operating system that runs on our grey matter is eminently hackable.

Deeply, deeply disturbing rhetoric.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#213

Post by brymaster »

eli wrote: post #29
pvnick wrote: post #3

"Further, no intelligence service - not even our own - has the capacity to compromise the secrets I continue to protect. While it has not been reported in the media, one of my specializations was to teach our people at DIA how to keep such information from being compromised even in the highest threat counter-intelligence environments (i.e. China). You may rest easy knowing I cannot be coerced into revealing that info…

I think he comes off as naive and more than a little pompous, but I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. Either way, if he really wants the focus back on the documents, he should probably write fewer letters about his beliefs, his security, and his personal situation.

This man that sacrificed his life to expose massive, illegal surveillance by the US Government comes off as pompous to you? Wow.

You're attacking Snowden's character just like he said people (and most of the mainstream media) would.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#214

Post by codex »

brymaster wrote: post #213
eli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he comes off as naive and more than a little pompous, but I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. Either way, if he really wants the focus back on the documents, he should probably write fewer letters about his beliefs, his security, and his personal situation.

This man that sacrificed his life to expose massive, illegal surveillance by the US Government comes off as pompous to you? Wow. You're attacking Snowden's character just like he said people (and most of the mainstream media) would.

I think he's commenting on Snowden's rather purple prose, which is a bit over the top, and distracting from his message.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#215

Post by lessnonymous »

jessaustin wrote: post #188
jmathai wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't then take much torture to extract the other person's name. Then a little more torture for the other party to get the missing piece of the puzzle.

Why would he know their name? Why wouldn't they have a similar group of people-switches arranged in a hierarchy?

This is my belief.

Spread the password and access details to two people without keeping it yourself. Those two people split their in half without keeping it themselves. The four people who now have the password are the 'kill switch' required to monitor Snowden's location. Snowden has no idea who they are.

Should he be tortured, all he can do is reveal his first two contacts. The torturer will now have to abduct those two people to get the key.

All these second level people know is the two people THEY spoke to. So you need BOTH of the second level to get all four of the third level people.

And then you'll have to abduct another FOUR people to get the key. All before these four people realize Snoden has disappeared.

He knows he can't resist torture. But he doesn't have to. He LITERALLY cannot be coerced.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#216

Post by brymaster »

codex wrote: post #214
brymaster wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This man that sacrificed his life to expose massive, illegal surveillance by the US Government comes off as pompous to you? Wow. You're attacking Snowden's character just like he said people (and most of the mainstream media) would.

I think he's commenting on Snowden's rather purple prose, which is a bit over the top, and distracting from his message.

No less over the top than being called a 'traitor' among other things by the media.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#217

Post by cheald »

gcb0 wrote: post #204
mrt0mat0 wrote: post #10

Edward Snowden makes me proud of my country, and the people that fight for it. But he also makes me ashamed of my Government and the people that hide behind it.

This raise an interesting point. The guy is risking his life, and no one even wonder who is the branch/person in government that should be responsible for what he says is going on. Who should be taken accountable for this? why people is not on the streets? ...well people are on the streets, but for the wrong reasons. media is transforming a, sadly, commonplace killing in hate/race crime. Any conspiracy theorist alrea…

> Who should be taken accountable for this?

Anyone and everyone with knowledge of it who didn't do what he did, IMO.

I realize that's a wide net.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#218

Post by twoodfin »

SolarNet wrote: post #190
twoodfin wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? There's no law or budget that requires PRISM. Any of these programs could be shut down with one phone call from the Oval Office, and Congress couldn't say boo. That's sort of the reason they're Constitutional in the first place: The executive has broad national security powers.

Not since nixon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Budget_and_Impoun... Also, he must execute the law faithfully, if the Congress gives him the power to use secret courts to wire-tap people he is expected to use it to it's fullest extent, to do otherwise would be illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_State... PRISM is the president faithfully executing the laws set by congress, betw…

So by your logic, Bush wasn't to blame for his version of these programs either? How about extraordinary rendition and water boarding?

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#219

Post by SolarNet »

twoodfin wrote: post #218
SolarNet wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not since nixon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Budget_and_Impoun... Also, he must execute the law faithfully, if the Congress gives him the power to use secret courts to wire-tap people he is expected to use it to it's fullest extent, to do otherwise would be illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_State... PRISM is the president faithfully executing the laws set by congress, betw…

So by your logic, Bush wasn't to blame for his version of these programs either? How about extraordinary rendition and water boarding?

If they were legal at the time, then no, he was doing his job, congress would be responsible. To clarify, PRISM and related programs are completely legal via the FISA bill (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr6304/text). They shouldn't be legal, the supreme court will likely strike them down as unconstitutional, but they are LEGAL.

As for torture and extraordinary rendition those things were ACTUALLY ILLEGAL. So yes, President Bush and/or his administration should be held responsible for them.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#220

Post by SolarNet »

declan wrote: post #210
SolarNet wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not since nixon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Budget_and_Impoun... Also, he must execute the law faithfully, if the Congress gives him the power to use secret courts to wire-tap people he is expected to use it to it's fullest extent, to do otherwise would be illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_State... PRISM is the president faithfully executing the laws set by congress, betw…

Um, the above is the Sunday School version of U.S. politics. In reality, the executive has a tremendous amount of discretion. Just look at the Obama admin unilaterally extending an Obamacare deadline that was set by Congress -- and which did not give the executive branch the ability to alter. Didn't matter. It's true that Congress is also responsible for NSA domestic surveillance. But every branch of government has a…

First, where is your evidence of this opinion, I provided links to two sources describing the modern state of Executive powers and you basically call me naive without specifically refuting my evidence or points.

Second, the ACA (AKA Obamacare) does not specify specific deadlines except when reports to congress must be made. I googled for the deadline extension you were referring too, there were many, so please be more specific. Here is the text of the bill to read it for yourself (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr3590/text). In general it says the the secretary of HHS shall set deadlines as reasonable, and hence giving the Administration the power to change their own deadline.

Third, I generally base my opinion off of personal anecdote since I have a family member serving as an elected politician in an executive office. Their job requires them to execute laws very specifically, often requiring them to consult lawyers regularly (even though they are a lawyer!). Laws can be tricky, and while I am not knowledgeable of government law I would be willing to bet the President is basically required to use section 702 of FISA whenever he can in regards to terrorism. But then again, my personal anecdote is from a county position.

Finally, it isn't a question of constitutionality. Congress said it was legal, therefore it's legal until the supreme court (or a lesser court that doesn't get appealed) says it is unconstitutional. I agree that the law is unconstitutional, but the executive branch does not get the luxury to exercise their opinions on laws like that.

Post reply on HN