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FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

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Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#21

Post by dllthomas »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #17
at-fates-hands wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also keep in mind these bases pump a TON of money back into the local economy: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/30/12482964-bye-b... "City officials in Heidelberg expect annual financial losses of up to $25 million, as a result of the closures of U.S. bases in the region." "We estimate that a total of about 1,000 civilian jobs will be lost, when the nearly 8,000 service members pull out," said Diana Scharl,…

There's at least one person like you in every one of these threads, propagating the idea that money or economics makes injustice okay.

Who said anything about "okay"? It's an explanation for there being less protest then there might otherwise be.

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#22

Post by PavlovsCat »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #7
majke wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany doesn't "allow" US bases. They were forced to have them after World War II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_in_Germ... [update: removed speculation about german taxpayer covering the bill]

Also keep in mind these bases pump a TON of money back into the local economy: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/30/12482964-bye-b... "City officials in Heidelberg expect annual financial losses of up to $25 million, as a result of the closures of U.S. bases in the region." "We estimate that a total of about 1,000 civilian jobs will be lost, when the nearly 8,000 service members pull out," said Diana Scharl,…

Either the military is all about [insert alleged ideals and aims here], and then people would forego more lucrative options to do the right thing and work in the military sector; or it's not, and we should just stop the fucking charade. Maybe Smedley Butler is right, war is a racket, and the costs in lives and materials outweigh the benefits by far... how's that for an idea? It creates X jobs and destroys Y lives; so let's talk about both or neither.

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#23

Post by Bosence »

goatforce5 wrote: post #15
sschueller wrote: post #4

What I don't understand is why the Germans allow the US to setup a base that spies on them. According to the Spiegel the base was setup without local approval. Also also locals have been concerned for a long time because of possible radiation from the large antennas but for what ever reason the local government cant even inquire about it. Imagine a German military base in the middle of the US that has who knows what…

There's a similar base in the UK at Menwith Hill. They don't welcome visitors as such, but activist/comedian Mark Thomas discovered that due to a quirk in a law, it was legal to fly a hot air balloon over it. So that's what he did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBksQsAZ2hQ (short version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epWTJUajIdI (full episode)

That's just simply fantastic.

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#24

Post by computer »

rbellio wrote: post #20
s_q_b wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago at Defcon someone rigged up a Twitter scraper, and found all the tweets that geolocated to the massive NSA headquarters parking lot. That said, it's not clear to me that it's legal to actively attempt to "out" NSA employees.

I tried finding more about the Twitter scraper, but didn't find anything. Could you provide a link? I think I'd get a good chuckle from it.

https://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9232476/Who_is_tweet...

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#25

Post by s_q_b »

sschueller wrote: post #4

What I don't understand is why the Germans allow the US to setup a base that spies on them. According to the Spiegel the base was setup without local approval. Also also locals have been concerned for a long time because of possible radiation from the large antennas but for what ever reason the local government cant even inquire about it. Imagine a German military base in the middle of the US that has who knows what…

Europe is full of US military bases, which although intelligence requests are approached through a veneer of "assisting allies," does come with a certain amount of implied threat when you enter the dark realm of realpolitik.

Heck, for half a century Operation Gladio and its NATO-wide equivalents reduced several European governments to puppet states through a campaign of terror, all in the pursuit of US interests.

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#26

Post by cmdkeen »

logicallee wrote: post #19
cmdkeen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever wondered what many embassies contain? There were serious health concerns about staff in the British Embassy in Moscow during the Cold War from all the stuff the Soviets were throwing at the building trying to work out what the occupants were up to. Ever wondered what that odd superstructure box on a visiting warship parked in your local naval base had inside it? Ever wondered why Britain was so keen to hang onto…

Ever wonder what it would be like to say what you mean?

Embassies are full of secret spying equipment, and indeed spies. Foreign warships that come to visit "interesting" ports have been known to carry extra electronics intelligence equipment.

My point was that you don't have to imagine a foreign power having unknown surveillance equipment on your nation's soil. Unless you're in the most backwater nation on earth foreign powers will already be doing this.

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#27

Post by tzs »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #17
at-fates-hands wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also keep in mind these bases pump a TON of money back into the local economy: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/30/12482964-bye-b... "City officials in Heidelberg expect annual financial losses of up to $25 million, as a result of the closures of U.S. bases in the region." "We estimate that a total of about 1,000 civilian jobs will be lost, when the nearly 8,000 service members pull out," said Diana Scharl,…

There's at least one person like you in every one of these threads, propagating the idea that money or economics makes injustice okay.

What injustice? The Germans approve the bases. The US finds them useful. It's a mutually beneficial situation that both sides want to continue.

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#28

Post by cmdkeen »

timbrooke wrote: post #9

Europe is like Marsellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction (where he's bent over). The US is the thug behind him. And both seem to be enjoying it.

According to released information most of the espionage occurring against Europe is economic. From the UK wanting to know what German interest rate policies were back in the 1980s to Airbus to current the current state of EU finances and what they are planning to do.

Germany is in a fantastic economic situation and has unparalleled soft power across Europe at the moment. So yes, certain European nations are enjoying it, and are not in the slightest bent over.

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#29

Post by sentenza »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #7
majke wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany doesn't "allow" US bases. They were forced to have them after World War II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_in_Germ... [update: removed speculation about german taxpayer covering the bill]

Also keep in mind these bases pump a TON of money back into the local economy: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/30/12482964-bye-b... "City officials in Heidelberg expect annual financial losses of up to $25 million, as a result of the closures of U.S. bases in the region." "We estimate that a total of about 1,000 civilian jobs will be lost, when the nearly 8,000 service members pull out," said Diana Scharl,…

This is what makes the Dagger Complex so special: Usually, locals are very friendly to the US troops and the local dignitaries are devastated when they leave.

Not here. The NSA people are secretive, hostile and their activities are unpopular. I read an article in my local (!) newspaper recently, where people, among them the mayor of the nearest town, complained about the installation.

Re: FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

#30

Post by jaggederest »

rfnslyr wrote: post #12
ccarter84 wrote: post #2

Well...at least the German authorities were civilized about it. Not so sure our authorities (in the US) would have the same reaction.

Is that really the point it's gotten to? "At least they didn't kill me for trying to protect my rights".

"Jolly good of them to only take a toe"
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