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High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

princeton.edu

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Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#51

Post by kansface »

kyllo wrote: post #45
buddylw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely that corn subsidies are out of control, but it's not clear that getting rid of corn would solve the health problem. It would likely be replaced with 'high fructose' . Fructose has properties (very sweet, doesn't crystallize like sucrose, etc.) that junk food purveyors love and corn doesn't even contain any fructose naturally. Any starch + amylase makes a syrup (my personal favorite is rice syrup).…

Right, if corn were not subsidized, corn syrup would probably not be wholly replaced with cane sugar, as cane sugar is much more expensive, a lot of it is imported, and it can't really be grown productively in most of the US--inside the US it's really only grown in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii. The 89 million acres[1] of corn harvested in the US would be partly replaced by some other starchy crop x, and high fructose c…

Sugar is only expensive because of the extreme tariffs the government places on it.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#52

Post by magicalist »

panic wrote: post #21

You can find the original paper at http://www.foodpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/HFCS_Rats_10.... . The statistics are a bit confusing to me, but it looks like they only find a significant difference for males over 8 weeks, not females over 7 months. The "significant" difference for males seems pretty small given that the rats started out weighing between 300 and 375 grams. And the conclusion doesn't mention sucrose…

You weren't the only one they confused. John Timmer at Ars Technica did an excellent writeup[1] about the study and the somewhat questionable aspects of their conclusions.

I would quote the relevant bits, but it's basically the entire article pointing out possible (and unaddressed) issues with the study:

"Although some of the results are suggestive, given the somewhat confusing and, in some cases, contradictory nature of the result, it would seem to be appropriate to interpret them with caution, and go back and start a larger population of rats on a study with a more consistent design. The authors haven't gone that route..."

[1] http://arstechnica.com/science/2010/03/does-high-fructose-co...

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#53

Post by grannyg00se »

tomphoolery wrote: post #17
grannyg00se wrote: post #7

"The rats in the Princeton study became obese by drinking high-fructose corn syrup, but not by drinking sucrose. The critical differences in appetite, metabolism and gene expression that underlie this phenomenon are yet to be discovered" The whole thing is one big correlation confirmation. I was hoping to find something substantial that would explain the underlying cause.

I'm no expert on this, but it seems like they were studying the problem in the wrong way. Instead of considering HFCS as a food, and measuring how it works on your body, why not consider HFCS as a drug, and measure how it works on your brain? I think the HFCS->obesity issue has a lot more to do with the way sugar affects our brains. I think HFCS is detrimental to human survival because it has encouraged us to get all…

But the caloric intake of both groups was the same. So even if the HFCS animals wanted to eat more, they weren't overeating or eating to "feel better" because they weren't permitted.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#54

Post by greenyoda »

tomphoolery wrote: post #17
grannyg00se wrote: post #7

"The rats in the Princeton study became obese by drinking high-fructose corn syrup, but not by drinking sucrose. The critical differences in appetite, metabolism and gene expression that underlie this phenomenon are yet to be discovered" The whole thing is one big correlation confirmation. I was hoping to find something substantial that would explain the underlying cause.

I'm no expert on this, but it seems like they were studying the problem in the wrong way. Instead of considering HFCS as a food, and measuring how it works on your body, why not consider HFCS as a drug, and measure how it works on your brain? I think the HFCS->obesity issue has a lot more to do with the way sugar affects our brains. I think HFCS is detrimental to human survival because it has encouraged us to get all…

"Instead of considering HFCS as a food, and measuring how it works on your body, why not consider HFCS as a drug, and measure how it works on your brain?"

That does seem to be the major focus of this lab: Bart Hoebel is a psychology professor "who specializes in the neuroscience of appetite, weight and sugar addiction".

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#55

Post by [deleted] »

kansface wrote: post #51
kyllo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, if corn were not subsidized, corn syrup would probably not be wholly replaced with cane sugar, as cane sugar is much more expensive, a lot of it is imported, and it can't really be grown productively in most of the US--inside the US it's really only grown in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii. The 89 million acres[1] of corn harvested in the US would be partly replaced by some other starchy crop x, and high fructose c…

Sugar is only expensive because of the extreme tariffs the government places on it.

[deleted]

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#56

Post by jwmerrill »

panic wrote: post #21

You can find the original paper at http://www.foodpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/HFCS_Rats_10.... . The statistics are a bit confusing to me, but it looks like they only find a significant difference for males over 8 weeks, not females over 7 months. The "significant" difference for males seems pretty small given that the rats started out weighing between 300 and 375 grams. And the conclusion doesn't mention sucrose…

The short study and the long study apparently disagree about whether 12hr or 24hr access to HFCS results in more weight gain. The 8 wk study shows 12hr HFCS leading to much larger weight gain than any of the other groups, and 24hr access not being significantly different from sucrose or chow alone. But then reading the 8 wk number off the weight chart from the 6 month study shows 24hr access being ahead of 12hr access.

You asked if these results have been replicated anywhere--it seems like the beginning of their long study didn't even replicate their short study. This makes me seriously skeptical about the differences they report between HFCS and sucrose.

The only conclusion I would feel very comfortable drawing from this data is that giving rats access to sugar water for 6 months makes them fatter (Fig. 1). Finer distinctions than that seem unwarranted.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#57

Post by [deleted] »

zanny wrote: post #47
kyllo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, if corn were not subsidized, corn syrup would probably not be wholly replaced with cane sugar, as cane sugar is much more expensive, a lot of it is imported, and it can't really be grown productively in most of the US--inside the US it's really only grown in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii. The 89 million acres[1] of corn harvested in the US would be partly replaced by some other starchy crop x, and high fructose c…

> we as a nation eat too much food I really don't know how to fix it, because it is more the subconscious drive to overeat when you can than any cultural issue. Food is plentiful and cheap, so Americans devour it incessantly. One thing I think could fix it is decoupling the social aspects of eating - most families only see each other for food, which prompts them to eat more if subconsciously they want more human inte…

[deleted]

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#58

Post by Azulsky »

kyllo wrote: post #45
buddylw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely that corn subsidies are out of control, but it's not clear that getting rid of corn would solve the health problem. It would likely be replaced with 'high fructose' . Fructose has properties (very sweet, doesn't crystallize like sucrose, etc.) that junk food purveyors love and corn doesn't even contain any fructose naturally. Any starch + amylase makes a syrup (my personal favorite is rice syrup).…

Right, if corn were not subsidized, corn syrup would probably not be wholly replaced with cane sugar, as cane sugar is much more expensive, a lot of it is imported, and it can't really be grown productively in most of the US--inside the US it's really only grown in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii. The 89 million acres[1] of corn harvested in the US would be partly replaced by some other starchy crop x, and high fructose c…

Also grown in Louisiana.

Corn is the US climate friendly equivalent of sugarcane. Sugar cane is the most harvested crop worldwide. Sugarcane has heavy import tariffs in the US as welfare for the domestic corn industry.

Brazil has a 22% Ethanol requirement on its gasoline and all that comes from sugar cane.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#59

Post by carbocation »

jjoonathan wrote: post #20
MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like you are a paid shill. I know that you aren't, which disappoints me further, because I'd like to think that people are capable of educating themselves instead of spreading misinformation. On your first paragraph, pondering whether sucrose breaks down into fructose and glucose immediately: No, it doesn't. HFCS makes sugars available to the bloodstream sooner, causing larger swings in overall blood sugar…

First of all, I tend to agree with the sibling posts accusing you of failing to maintain scholarly decorum. The "paid shill" remark was uncalled for, even if I tend to agree with your criticisms (at least, all but the most crucial one). > pondering whether sucrose breaks down into fructose and glucose immediately: No, it doesn't. Can you substantiate this further (say, with an in-vivo sucrose half-life)? I don't have…

Here is a free article covering a study in humans comparing the pharmacokinetics of high-fructose corn syrup to those of sucrose [1]. Key figure showing blood concentrations of some sugars is here [2].

1 = https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3306467/

2 = https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw/2.0/html/tileshop_pmc/t...

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#60

Post by smsm42 »

MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #5
buddylw wrote: post #2

I don't understand the mechanism here. I thought sucrase, the enzyme that breaks down sucrose (table sugar) into 1 fructose and 1 glucose (same as HFCS), acted almost immediately -- at least on the timescale of nutrient absorption. Is it just short circuiting our sense of satiety? Maybe the raw fructose makes things sweeter and stimulates reward centers better? I wonder where honey falls in all this since it has high…

You sound like you are a paid shill. I know that you aren't, which disappoints me further, because I'd like to think that people are capable of educating themselves instead of spreading misinformation. On your first paragraph, pondering whether sucrose breaks down into fructose and glucose immediately: No, it doesn't. HFCS makes sugars available to the bloodstream sooner, causing larger swings in overall blood sugar…

>>>> You sound like you are a paid shill.

I'm sorry but starting with this you lost all credibility in my eyes immediately. Which would be no problem if you supported your statements with links to independent sources, but you did not.

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