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High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

princeton.edu

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Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#41
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like you are a paid shill. I know that you aren't, which disappoints me further, because I'd like to think that people are capable of educating themselves instead of spreading misinformation. On your first paragraph, pondering whether sucrose breaks down into fructose and glucose immediately: No, it doesn't. HFCS makes sugars available to the bloodstream sooner, causing larger swings in overall blood sugar…

Wow. I think you severely miss-read my comment as some formal argument and you are holding it to a much higher standard than your own comment. Your first paragraph is an ad hominem attack that is subsequently withdrawn adding nothing to the conversation. I think you might have misread my questions for arguments. Questions have a symbol at the end: '?'. Also, sentences starting "I thought" are not formal arguments, bu…

I appreciate your asking the questions that a lot of people have when they hear that HFCS is "evil".

Generally, if people have been taught that there is more than one kind of sugar (yeah, I know), they learn about sucrose, glucose, and fructose, at most.

The name 'fructose' doesn't help clarify this situation. We are told that we (rightly) should eat more fruits and vegetables. But those juicy peaches and other fruits and fruitish foods (berries, etc.) are sweet.

As a result, we make a very direct connection between fructose and fruit, which is enough to create confusion about the HFCS messaging.[1] Points as well for knowing that honey contains a boatload of fructose. Honey's also good for us, or else they wouldn't point out that things are sweetened with honey instead of 'refined' sugar, right?

As with many issues, there's a bathtub curve of understanding. The completely ignorant and the very-slightly informed people are not confused. Nor are people with a high level of understanding about the combination of chemistry and human physiology.

It's that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" zone that has trouble. You have a better than average understanding of the chemistry and the biological processes, but are having trouble putting together the whole picture. How the heck are you going to advise your kids on what to eat without laying down fiat rules?

I think you were treated unfairly in the reply to your post but it does contain some useful information. For the last laugh[2], I would suggest that after you get the understanding you need on the issue, you write a post/page/paper on the topic, targeting your current self as an audience.

Post it here knowing that HN is a culmination of people who are in the bottom of that bathtub on just about every issue, with some awesome representation of the "heavily informed". You'll help a lot of people and get some actionable feedback.

Just filter out the emotion[3] and revise as needed and you'll have a citation handy the next time this sort of thing comes up. Then you'll be that guy on the right hand side of the curve and can have the last laugh by encouraging education instead of discouraging the exposure of innocent ignorance.

[1] The Corn Growers' Association has created some biased but unintentionally hilarious examples of pro-HFCS messaging.

http://sweetsurprise.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ-ByUx552s

[2] and because I am lazy and want people to do things for me

[3] OMFG, he didn't talk about sucralose, galactose, maltose, and zymurlose!

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#42
post #3

Stop giving out corn welfare to corporations and problem solved. It's the ONLY reason why it's so heavily used. Corn syrup and ethanol - two massively damaging products of a completely corrupt system that everyone refuses to change because of massive profits off taxpayers.

Thanks for the laugh. You know you've reached the pinnacle of "first world problems" when a phrase like corrupt system , which has historically been used to describe things like institutional discrimination and genocide, is now used to describe the "horrors" of agricultural subsidies and tariffs. I'm surprised that Amnesty International hasn't updated their corruption index accordingly, which would surely put every s…

Or third-world problems, such as when we started dumping all of that subsidized corn into the Mexican market.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#43

Not to mention it's GMO corn being used! You might as well poke holes in the lining of your stomach.

If we take selective breeding, inbreeding, and hybridization into account, corn (maize) is one of the most genetically manipulated foods on the planet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/science/25creature.html?_r...

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#44

"The rats in the Princeton study became obese by drinking high-fructose corn syrup, but not by drinking sucrose. The critical differences in appetite, metabolism and gene expression that underlie this phenomenon are yet to be discovered" The whole thing is one big correlation confirmation. I was hoping to find something substantial that would explain the underlying cause.

I'm no expert on this, but it seems like they were studying the problem in the wrong way. Instead of considering HFCS as a food, and measuring how it works on your body, why not consider HFCS as a drug, and measure how it works on your brain? I think the HFCS->obesity issue has a lot more to do with the way sugar affects our brains. I think HFCS is detrimental to human survival because it has encouraged us to get all…

Excellent point. Looking at HFCS as a drug that may cause some people to eat is more likely to yield the causation people are looking for.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#45
post #39
post #3

Stop giving out corn welfare to corporations and problem solved. It's the ONLY reason why it's so heavily used. Corn syrup and ethanol - two massively damaging products of a completely corrupt system that everyone refuses to change because of massive profits off taxpayers.

I agree completely that corn subsidies are out of control, but it's not clear that getting rid of corn would solve the health problem. It would likely be replaced with 'high fructose' . Fructose has properties (very sweet, doesn't crystallize like sucrose, etc.) that junk food purveyors love and corn doesn't even contain any fructose naturally. Any starch + amylase makes a syrup (my personal favorite is rice syrup).…

Right, if corn were not subsidized, corn syrup would probably not be wholly replaced with cane sugar, as cane sugar is much more expensive, a lot of it is imported, and it can't really be grown productively in most of the US--inside the US it's really only grown in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii.

The 89 million acres[1] of corn harvested in the US would be partly replaced by some other starchy crop x, and high fructose corn syrup would be partly replaced by high fructose x syrup.

The root problem is really the fact that we as a nation eat too much food, and too much cheap, high-carbohydrate, calorie-dense, processed food. I agree with cutting corn subsidies, but the real solution is on the demand side.

1: http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornac....

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#46
post #39
post #3

Stop giving out corn welfare to corporations and problem solved. It's the ONLY reason why it's so heavily used. Corn syrup and ethanol - two massively damaging products of a completely corrupt system that everyone refuses to change because of massive profits off taxpayers.

I agree completely that corn subsidies are out of control, but it's not clear that getting rid of corn would solve the health problem. It would likely be replaced with 'high fructose' . Fructose has properties (very sweet, doesn't crystallize like sucrose, etc.) that junk food purveyors love and corn doesn't even contain any fructose naturally. Any starch + amylase makes a syrup (my personal favorite is rice syrup).…

I think the point is that getting rid of the subsidies would let the price of HFCS increase and would be less attractive to food producers.

Regarding the idea that sucrose is healthier than HFCS, I remain unconvinced.

See Robert H. Lustig's awesome expostion, Sugar: The Bitter Truth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

He explains the endocrinology behind why our bodies cannot stay ahead of our sugar intake.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#47
post #45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely that corn subsidies are out of control, but it's not clear that getting rid of corn would solve the health problem. It would likely be replaced with 'high fructose' . Fructose has properties (very sweet, doesn't crystallize like sucrose, etc.) that junk food purveyors love and corn doesn't even contain any fructose naturally. Any starch + amylase makes a syrup (my personal favorite is rice syrup).…

Right, if corn were not subsidized, corn syrup would probably not be wholly replaced with cane sugar, as cane sugar is much more expensive, a lot of it is imported, and it can't really be grown productively in most of the US--inside the US it's really only grown in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii. The 89 million acres[1] of corn harvested in the US would be partly replaced by some other starchy crop x, and high fructose c…

> we as a nation eat too much food

I really don't know how to fix it, because it is more the subconscious drive to overeat when you can than any cultural issue. Food is plentiful and cheap, so Americans devour it incessantly. One thing I think could fix it is decoupling the social aspects of eating - most families only see each other for food, which prompts them to eat more if subconsciously they want more human interaction.

It is also known you eat more when you aren't happy, so obviously make people happier, which isn't something as a society we are doing much of.

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#48
post #47
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, if corn were not subsidized, corn syrup would probably not be wholly replaced with cane sugar, as cane sugar is much more expensive, a lot of it is imported, and it can't really be grown productively in most of the US--inside the US it's really only grown in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii. The 89 million acres[1] of corn harvested in the US would be partly replaced by some other starchy crop x, and high fructose c…

> we as a nation eat too much food I really don't know how to fix it, because it is more the subconscious drive to overeat when you can than any cultural issue. Food is plentiful and cheap, so Americans devour it incessantly. One thing I think could fix it is decoupling the social aspects of eating - most families only see each other for food, which prompts them to eat more if subconsciously they want more human inte…

[deleted]

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#49
post #45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely that corn subsidies are out of control, but it's not clear that getting rid of corn would solve the health problem. It would likely be replaced with 'high fructose' . Fructose has properties (very sweet, doesn't crystallize like sucrose, etc.) that junk food purveyors love and corn doesn't even contain any fructose naturally. Any starch + amylase makes a syrup (my personal favorite is rice syrup).…

Right, if corn were not subsidized, corn syrup would probably not be wholly replaced with cane sugar, as cane sugar is much more expensive, a lot of it is imported, and it can't really be grown productively in most of the US--inside the US it's really only grown in Florida, Texas, and Hawaii. The 89 million acres[1] of corn harvested in the US would be partly replaced by some other starchy crop x, and high fructose c…

[deleted]

Re: High-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain than sugar (2010)

#50
post #3

Stop giving out corn welfare to corporations and problem solved. It's the ONLY reason why it's so heavily used. Corn syrup and ethanol - two massively damaging products of a completely corrupt system that everyone refuses to change because of massive profits off taxpayers.

Thanks for the laugh. You know you've reached the pinnacle of "first world problems" when a phrase like corrupt system , which has historically been used to describe things like institutional discrimination and genocide, is now used to describe the "horrors" of agricultural subsidies and tariffs. I'm surprised that Amnesty International hasn't updated their corruption index accordingly, which would surely put every s…

When high tariffs on the importation of sugar prevents countries from developing their own agriculture industries, it's not just a first world problem. It's BS like this that causes international tension, wars, and famine. This situation isn't as superficial as it may seem on the surface.
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