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I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

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Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#241

Post by falcolas »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #180
crazygringo wrote: post #3

That's really, really sad. And the worst part is, it's surely conscious on nobody's part. There have even been studies showing this effect. What's even sadder is that there's no obvious or easy way to fix it.

There absolutely is an easy, obvious way to fix it. It's just something that gives men the screaming meemies. Quotas. Don't give me guff about "the best person for the job". You've been picking the best man for the job.

Women are picking the best man for the job as well.

"The gender of the faculty participants did not affect responses, such that female and male faculty were equally likely to exhibit bias against the female student."

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/14/1211286109#aff-...

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#242

Post by lucb1e »

Oh my god. I'd seriously write fuck you letters in 72pt bold comic sans ms to all other companies, explaining what dicks they were. Seriously, 4 months of nothing (must have been lots of applications), and then the word "Mr" changes it all? Incredible.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#243

Post by pooriaazimi »

robot_friend wrote: post #207
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the recruiters have some negative real-life information that discounts your actual profile but no such negative information against your fake one. Your evidence doesn't show sex discrimination.

Hm. I believe you're suggesting that they somehow recognize me from my photo or my name, neither of which is very likely as I am not at all well-known. But that does bring up an interesting point - it could be they find me unattractive and thus having a photo is the negative factor (which is still gendered, but in a different way). If this were a true psych study and not one person's curiosity the fake profile should…

You should make another "fake" account (this time, with a feminine name, but with the same wealth of information as the macho-fake one) and see which of the two fake ones gets more (professional) attention and compare them with each other, not your real account.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#244

Post by ritchiea »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #232
ritchiea wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair he wrote one line which in the context of the thread could easily be perceived as defending sexist hiring practices. He may not have said "man or woman" but he responded to a comment I made where I described a manager of mine who was fond of making sexist jokes and refused to take women seriously as job candidates. In his position if I wanted to make a more general point about the court system I would have…

It would be really awesome if when people read/hear stuff that can easily be perceived in more than one way... they went with the better choice than the worst one. Not everyone perceives things the same way.. so why always assume they meant it the bad way you perceived it rather than finding out what they meant first? I think a lot of this trouble would go away. Also, badclient wrote exactly one sentence: It is a pro…

If he wasn't responding to my comment then a general comment about the court system is off topic. I didn't bring up the court system. It would be strange for me to assume he is veering off topic rather than commenting on the situation I described.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#245

Post by anaptdemise »

scythe wrote: post #184
anaptdemise wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schools have almost gone through this stage and fully gone over to mixed classrooms. To their detriment. As a product of both coed and all boys private schools, there is a stark difference in teaching and disceplin in single sex schools that research shows improves outcomes. Hit http://scholar.google.com/ with "single sex education." There is a huge discrepancy in male performance especially that most teachers admi…

>To their detriment. In a world where sexism is still a huge problem, it seems that forcing students into a monosexual environment would only contribute to stunting their social development even more. Compare, for example, the relative incidence of sexism in a heavily male field like programming or philosophy with the amount of sexism in a gender-integrated field like biology. This idea of separating students by gend…

The reason I did not link to a specific article is that there are so many on both sides of the debate. However, my experience and the experience of my female friends that underwent similar education are all positive on both sides. Also, I am willing to bet that the top US schools are mostly private and mostly single-sex or segregated. They are in my area.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#246

Post by etler »

anologwintermut wrote: post #169
pessimizer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's conscious on a lot of people's parts. I've also heard "no women, no sexual harassment suits" enough from people in tech to assume that there are a lot of bigots not dumb enough to admit it out loud. I could be going too far, though. Maybe the kind of dumb lockerroom overshare bluster amongst the employees and managers of sexually harassing companies and departments lends itself to admitting incriminating things…

I think we missed the key point that he implied he was a women with kids. Some set of hiring managers assumed a mother with kids would likely focus more on family then career. That assumption may or may not be dumb. It's certainly correctable if there is serious statistical evidence it is wrong (unlike someone just being a bigot). That wouldn't help this case though, because the inclusion of kids in the resume was an…

I'd like to see a study of response rates on resume's that are nearly the same, except for the gender, and race implied by the name. I feel like that would provide a pretty good measure to figure out how discriminatory our jobs system is.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#247

Post by newnewnew »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #228
dominotw wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice observation. One of my colleague got a stern warning for using the word dick ( 'dont be a dick' kind of way) around female colleagues, because two women sitting behind him complained to management about it. I am sure he is not discriminatory, biased or misogynistic. I guess it wise to think about what you are saying and not say stuff like 'fuck off', 'stop bitching' which may be construed as inappropriate.

You don't have to be a woman to be offended by profanity. So it is hard to say (based on your few sentences) that this had anything to do with man vs woman. Perhaps the two people sitting behind the person were just offended by the language in a general "I don't think we should be cursing at work" sort of way. Not everything has something to do with the gender of the people involved. Wait... that can't be true... can…

If a man that is not a member of a protected minority complains about profanity, the powers that be tell him to suck it up. If a protected minority complains, the user of profanity may be fired (see: Adria Richards)

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#248

Post by tptacek »

Peroni wrote: post #72
bitops wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most HR departments are staffed by women for example Do you see the irony in this statement?

He's stating fact. The HR industry is absolutely dominated by females. That's not a matter of opinion.

Human resources people are the ones who negotiate on behalf of the company to get cheap health insurance. They aren't hiring managers.

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#249

Post by Camillo »

rayiner wrote: post #239
anaptdemise wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schools have almost gone through this stage and fully gone over to mixed classrooms. To their detriment. As a product of both coed and all boys private schools, there is a stark difference in teaching and disceplin in single sex schools that research shows improves outcomes. Hit http://scholar.google.com/ with "single sex education." There is a huge discrepancy in male performance especially that most teachers admi…

> Being a women of breading age, she was specifically asked if she intended to have children in the next 5 years which was a non-starter. These were small firms that couldn't afford to have a junior partner off for maternity leave That's sexism, plain and simple. Who are they to assume she's going to take extended maternity leave and be the primary care giver? They would never ask that of a man (most male law partner…

What is sexist, the fact that men and women handle the work/home balance in very different ways, or the company's recognition of that fact?

Re: I understood gender discrimination once I added “Mr.” to my resume

#250

Post by belorn »

gcr wrote: post #203
belorn wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Female bosses discriminate worse against women than male bosses. The causes to this is debated, through if we want a change, we do indeed need to change people rather than men .

That sounds interesting. Have any sources? I'd like to read up about this.

I could not find the source, nor the original news article that I read.

But while looking, I instead found research that slightly contradicted my current understanding of the subject. They[1,2] claimed that there is no difference between female and male management in how they discriminate. They say that both genders are equally bad in creating equality in the work space (deciding hiring or pay rate).

So I still stand by that we need to change people rather than men, but thanks for pushing me to look for sources.

[1]: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/14/1211286109#aff-...

[2]: http://www.ifau.se/Upload/pdf/se/2011/r-11-26-Paverkar-chefe... (Swedish)

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