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Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

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Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#101

The title is wrong (the article isn't, necessarily). The license, https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine/blob/master/LICENSE , is non-free/open source.

The source is clearly open. I'm looking at it right now. That it doesn't match Stallmans definition of "free" doesn't mean that it's not open source.

See the open source definition (http://opensource.org/osd), especially the third point.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why can't you be an observer of the sys admin when they install the software. Witness some chain of command that the software has come from an authorized source, meets a digital check-sum and is installed properly. It can then be secured by another party with a two password "lock box" type approach kind of like we use with our crypto system at work that guards our CC processing. There are systems invented and impl…

You don't seem to understand, so heres a whitepaper [1] from Rop Gonggrijp on how to play chess on a Nedap voting computer. And the Nedap machines are special-built and programmed to ensure the authenticity of the votes, using anything from printers to read only memory. Not fucking Python running on a loosely secured Linux box. [1]: http://wijvertrouwenstemcomputersniet.nl/images/9/91/Es3b-en...

[deleted]

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#103
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All voting systems that I know of require trust, with or without machines. Do you trust the person counting your ballot to count correctly? There's a district in the UK that prides itself on always being the first to return results. I would be fairly worried about the ballot counters there. Eventually someone has to trust someone to execute correctly. Unless there's some voting system I'm not aware of that doesn't re…

There usually are representatives of various political parties at each polling station during elections in my country. How do you watch electroing vote counting? How do you recount in case of doubt?

With physical voting you need more than observers at the counting itself. One common means of electoral fraud is to introduce boxes full of pre-cast votes for your candidate into the counting process.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#104

This seems like a good contract to the typical (american-inspired) secrecy around governmental systems. I would also like to believe open source makes software more secure, but I'm not sure if there is any research that confirms it. Oh, and cool its made in python and not some enterprise java or .NET :)

We're getting off topic, but you do know that it's perfectly possible to write decent Java or C# without it being "enterprise", right? (whatever that means) I'm starting to get sick of this "ruby/python/nodejs = cool, java/.net = slow bloated enterprise crap for men with suits" attitude that keeps reappearing here on HN. Whether your work environment is cool, whether your code is decent and snappy, all that has very…

Quite a few Versions of EJB's were pretty terrible, and early Java Web Technologies had a bit of obsession with XML. However, current Swing is pretty pleasant to work with, and I think that most of the Java have stems from early PHP developers. If you had worked with PHP, with database queries and page formatting in one file, all the crazy MVC crap with business objects and and stuff must have seem needlessly complicated. And even if noone does develop like that now (I hope, anyway), the meme that Java is terrible prevails.

EDIT: new Java, for example, looks about like this [1] and that's not all that complicated, even though I would like it more with webflow (technology for describing webpage in term of flows -- each flow is basically FSM with method calls specified on transitions and FMS-wide persistent storage).

[1]: https://github.com/heroku/devcenter-spring-mvc-hibernate

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#105
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to understand, so heres a whitepaper [1] from Rop Gonggrijp on how to play chess on a Nedap voting computer. And the Nedap machines are special-built and programmed to ensure the authenticity of the votes, using anything from printers to read only memory. Not fucking Python running on a loosely secured Linux box. [1]: http://wijvertrouwenstemcomputersniet.nl/images/9/91/Es3b-en...

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Despite the halting problem being unsolvable, formal verification is a huge area in computer science. News flash: you can not formally verify some web app running on Python running on Linux, being fed with input from a gigabit link to the complete outside world.

So the idea of using Python for an electric voting machine is dead from the onset, a complete no-starter.

(And yes, of course computer languages are inherently more or less secure by themselves, through the simple proxy of allowing programmers to make (or prevent) severe errors. Think C and fixed-size buffers on the stack.)

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#106

This seems like a good contract to the typical (american-inspired) secrecy around governmental systems. I would also like to believe open source makes software more secure, but I'm not sure if there is any research that confirms it. Oh, and cool its made in python and not some enterprise java or .NET :)

Agreed about open-source leading to greater security. Here's what I wrote on the topic a few years ago:

http://www.onlineaspect.com/2010/01/19/openness-and-security...

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#107
post #38

Common, not a single positive comment ? Things in the administration always take time. At least it's a move in the right direction. Next add a build CI to produce signed images. Then propose USB keys for people to boot their own system on the voting booth. At least it's better than the Diebold debacle in the states.

IMHO internet voting falls under "because you can does not mean you should".

Shrink the scope and decentralize to reduce risk. In this case, at a cultural level: don't vote on puppets, but vote on everything the puppets do. We have the technology to enable direct democracy.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#108

Could it be, that secret ballots are insecure? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_ballot In the US, we officially supported secret ballots in 1892. Still, I wonder if we all found the strength to open up the ballot, if that wouldn't eliminate some of the viability of voting fraud? I'll start, I voted for Obama in 2008 & 2012.

Obama is already using the IRS to harass his political opponents. I don't want that to get easier for either party.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#109
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All voting systems that I know of require trust, with or without machines. Do you trust the person counting your ballot to count correctly? There's a district in the UK that prides itself on always being the first to return results. I would be fairly worried about the ballot counters there. Eventually someone has to trust someone to execute correctly. Unless there's some voting system I'm not aware of that doesn't re…

There are theoretical cryptographic systems where each voter can verify that his vote was counted properly, without revealing his vote to anyone. I don't think any have been implemented in practice.

The International Association for Cryptologic Research (IACR) uses Helios Voting [1], an implementation of a cryptographic voting protocol [2], to vote for its directors. See the 2010 mock election [3,4] or the 2012 vote for the IACR directors [5]. You can find some other technology resources for Helios here [6].

[1] http://heliosvoting.org/

[2] http://documentation.heliosvoting.org/verification-specs/hel...

[3] http://www.iacr.org/elections/eVoting/finalReportHelios_2010...

[4] http://www.iacr.org/elections/eVoting/heliosDemo.pdf

[5] https://vote.heliosvoting.org/helios/elections/1df69264-0a48...

[6] http://heliosvoting.org/technology/

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#110
Lot's of proposals have been submitted on the bitcoin forums for some sort of cryptocurrency solution/proof of work online voting, where there is full transparency by looking at the block chain to see how many votes somebody had, and prevention of a malicious actor forging votes. Of course you have to trust whoever is mining the coins and handing them out, and trust end users sytems aren't compromised.

I would expect in my country anyways that any online voting would be DDOS'd by idiots looking for a soap box the media will pay attention to and create a huge debacle resulting in them scrapping it and forcing a regular ol' paper vote.

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