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Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

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Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The voters can check their votes by following method: http://www.vvk.ee/public/Verification_of_I-Votes.pdf

That doesn't verify anything. They are shuffling encrypted data between devices, but none of that is connected to the actual results. This isn't verification, it's smoke and mirrors.

That's not the point of this feature. The point is that if your computer is infected with malicious software that blocks or manipulates your votes then you can detect such things.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#32
post #27

No matter how open the code is. It is extremly hard, if not impossible, to ensure this code is running on the actual systems. E-voting sounds intersting in theory, but in practice it is basically not worth the trouble. It is way more complex than a regular system with ballots and the only gain is that the results can be published sooner.

(1) Even the simplest paper ballots are already counted by computer (central tabulators). Central tabulators that run on insecure computers and do all of their math using the most rudimentary microsoft access databases (no password protection, little user control, remote access via dial-up modem). (2) Slot machines are already protecting millions upon millions of dollars from countless people who would love to be abl…

1) Maybe in some jurisdictions but not in others. For the most part in the UK we have rooms of people counting and bundling papers.

2) Yes but the people who control those machines don't want to modify them (they want some winners for publicity but mostly losers and they are preconfigured for profit without modification).

3) If the receipt indicates your vote this opens the voter to bribery or coercion. If it doesn't how does it confirm that you vote was correctly recorded. Even if it does indicate your vote it is still non-trivial to confirm the validity of the election from it. You basically need to publish all the votes (with receipt numbers) and anyone whose vote doesn't match their receipt could flag it as rigged. This doesn't do anything to prevent digital ballot stuffing though.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#33

The license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0) is a strange choice for a project published on Github. Github encourages forking and making changes, which goes against the NoDerivs part of the license, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

You're right. CC licenses are not for software and are incompatible with the GPL. Read more at http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#C...

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#34
post #15

Sadly many of the identifiers are named in estonian. Limiting this project to estonian developers only. I'm aware that this is _estonians_ voting system, but i'm sure there are developers all around the world who would be interested in contributing (especially security audits would be interesting) to this project without the necessity to reverse engineering/translating the code.

This is anecdotal but I worked (shortly) somewhere where a developer did not write comments, variable, functions, etc in English on purpose, so that the code would not be outsourced in the future. The fact that it did not raised any eyebrows showed that overall the place had other issues all around...

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#35
post #13

There was this talk on TED a few years ago about e-voting without fraud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izddjAp_N4I I think they had a website for it, too, but I can't find it right now, and don't remember how it was called exactly.

“You can't solve social problems with software.” (Marcus Ranum).

It isn't clear from the talk, that:

- you cannot inject votes digitally (within parts of the system) - you may only verify your own vote, and may or may not know about "extra" votes, especially under low turnout, which is very frequent (the euphemism is "democratic deficit")

- supersedes chain voting: it is not clear, that voters cannot be bribed, where the briber can ask for your receipt to verify your voting (currently this is done by buffering voting slips: the first is taken out, filled out in front of the briber and exchanged for the clean copy inside the booth, which in turn is taken out etc.).

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#36
This seems like a good contract to the typical (american-inspired) secrecy around governmental systems. I would also like to believe open source makes software more secure, but I'm not sure if there is any research that confirms it.

Oh, and cool its made in python and not some enterprise java or .NET :)

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#37
post #27

No matter how open the code is. It is extremly hard, if not impossible, to ensure this code is running on the actual systems. E-voting sounds intersting in theory, but in practice it is basically not worth the trouble. It is way more complex than a regular system with ballots and the only gain is that the results can be published sooner.

(1) Even the simplest paper ballots are already counted by computer (central tabulators). Central tabulators that run on insecure computers and do all of their math using the most rudimentary microsoft access databases (no password protection, little user control, remote access via dial-up modem). (2) Slot machines are already protecting millions upon millions of dollars from countless people who would love to be abl…

> (2) Slot machines are already protecting millions upon millions of dollars from countless people who would love to be able to modify those machines' behavior.

There difference is motivation. If a slot machine pays out too much, the company that makes them won't get any more business. If a voting machine favours certain candidates, those candidates benefit from letting that continue (if they weren't instigating it to begin with) and often they might have been the ones in power when they voting machines in question where chosen.

> (3) A backup-paper trail would reduce error and allow for recounts. You vote, a receipt gets printed, you confirm that the printed paper represents your vote, and you're done. (The paper stays with the election commission)

This I agree with, and it would satisfy most concerns with electronic voting if you combined it with paper recounts of some random districts and, say, and districts with small margins or unusually large shifts.

Focusing all that much on the security of the voting machines is a sideshow, IMHO. You need some level of security, but pretty much any security mechanism you introduce will be inferior to recounts based on receipts collected using tried and true methods of paper, sealed boxes and independent observers.

Focusing on a solid recount solution that includes rules for when to trigger automatic manual paper recounts won't just catch malevolent interference with machines but also reduce the chance of problems due to bugs, hardware and software failures and all kinds of other problems.

But of course it'll cost more than switching to a purely electronic system, and that extra money won't go in vendors pockets.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#38
Common, not a single positive comment ? Things in the administration always take time. At least it's a move in the right direction. Next add a build CI to produce signed images. Then propose USB keys for people to boot their own system on the voting booth.

At least it's better than the Diebold debacle in the states.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#39
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't verify anything. They are shuffling encrypted data between devices, but none of that is connected to the actual results. This isn't verification, it's smoke and mirrors.

That's not the point of this feature. The point is that if your computer is infected with malicious software that blocks or manipulates your votes then you can detect such things.

...assuming you are willing to believe your smartphone display too.

Re: Estonian E-Voting Source Code Made Public

#40
Could it be, that secret ballots are insecure? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_ballot

In the US, we officially supported secret ballots in 1892. Still, I wonder if we all found the strength to open up the ballot, if that wouldn't eliminate some of the viability of voting fraud?

I'll start, I voted for Obama in 2008 & 2012.

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