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Would you have survived in the middle ages?

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Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#21

Post by eru »

rjprins wrote: post #12
gregwebs wrote: post #11

There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.

Speak for yourself, the nutrient rich food and especially the variety I eat each day was not available in the middle ages. Remember that people in the those times where much shorter (as proved by the shorter beds), this is the result of malnutrion. Toxicity is likely to be higher then, open or no sewage systems, very low hygiene (people didn't bathe, lots of animals) and remember they used woodstoves in side the hous…

The woodstoves were actually somewhat good for health as the smoke killed the bugs. Obviously the smoke also damaged the lungs and eyes.

Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#23

Post by patrickg-zill »

gregwebs wrote: post #11

There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.

I would like to point out that they used lead for drinking vessels sometimes...

Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#24

Post by parenthesis »

patrickg-zill wrote: post #23
gregwebs wrote: post #11

There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.

I would like to point out that they used lead for drinking vessels sometimes...

Lead has been used in drinking water pipes much more recently than the middle ages: http://eh.net/bookreviews/library/1233 .

Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#25

Post by hillel »

zackattack wrote: post #2

This was my favorite kottke.org post from last year, "I wanted to ask for survival tips in case I am unexpectedly transported to a random location in Europe (say for instance current France/Benelux/Germany) in the year 1000 AD (plus or minus 200 years). I assume that such transportation would leave me with what I am wearing, what I know, and nothing else. Any advice would help." http://kottke.org/08/06/survival-tips-…

I recorded a song based on the kottke post and a similar thread over on marginalrevolution.com.

http://www.sugarfix.net/2008/06/23/song-1000-ad/

Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#26

Post by xiaoma »

Bjoern wrote: post #6
TheSOB88 wrote: post #4

Brings up the point of our continued evolution towards weaker bodies - the more cures we have for asthma, children's diabetes, etc., the more the people that have those ailments reproduce, and the more people there are with those ailments.

Actually humanity is not really part anymore of the "survival of the fittest" or evolutionary cycle. We are actively changing ourselves and starting, in laboratories at least, to modify genetics. Won't take long before parents can "modify" their children to be smarter, healthier, etc.

Natural selection may not do much anymore, but sexual selection is alive and well.

Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#27

Post by gregwebs »

jacobolus wrote: post #19
gregwebs wrote: post #11

There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.

> A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment Are you serious? You don't think living in a tiny room with 10 family members and all kinds of animals (along with all of the lice, fleas, diseases, etc. that go along), with a wood fire filling the whole place with eye-stinging, lung-choking smoke, was a "toxic environment"? You'd be eating mostly grains, with very occasionally some meat, an…

I guess the difference here is that you are assuming they are drinking excrement filled water, where I was thinking they are drinking fresh water. There is probably a large difference between those that began to live in more crowded cities and those that were still in more pristine country side. It is not clear cut whether people were smaller in the middle ages. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/medimen.htm Bathing or changing clothes is really a social aspect that is not that important for health.

Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#28

Post by gregwebs »

rjprins wrote: post #12
gregwebs wrote: post #11

There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.

Speak for yourself, the nutrient rich food and especially the variety I eat each day was not available in the middle ages. Remember that people in the those times where much shorter (as proved by the shorter beds), this is the result of malnutrion. Toxicity is likely to be higher then, open or no sewage systems, very low hygiene (people didn't bathe, lots of animals) and remember they used woodstoves in side the hous…

sewage systems are necessary for sanitation in cities. Most people were living in the country side. "hygiene" is largely a social aspect that doesn't effect health much. Some researchers claim people did not lose height in the Middle Ages at all. Variety of food is not that important- we just need to get all the required nutrients in the foods we eat. Great to hear you are able to go against the modern trends and eat nutrient rich food.

Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#29

Post by khafra »

eru wrote: post #20
zackattack wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, besides the natural teleological questions this prompts, if I were transported back to the middle ages there's not all that much I'm sure I could invent. For example, I have no idea how a computer is actually built, from the ground-up. Maybe I could have a few acute scientific observations ("try penicillin!"; "use tungsten for your light bulb!", "b-b-boil that milk!") and I could probably derive Calculus. B…

Yes. Though knowing that certain directions are promising, would help. You know where to search. For example, I could not build a steam engine, but I know enough to describe how one could build a basic atmospheric steam engine, and that to improve upon it, you'd need to separate the condensation of the steam from the rest of the engine. But I guess I would have a lot of problems, convincing any sane medieval person t…

You could leave one helluva Leonardo-style sketch notebook, at the very least, if you could be spared the parchment.

Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?

#30

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

zackattack wrote: post #16
anthropocentric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reading the Kottke thread for about 30 mins (it rules), I just had this thought: What if Michaelangelo (or some other prolific inventors) weren't that special. What if they were simply average Joe's like you and me that were transported back in time. They used their basic knowledge of stuff around them to "invent" things.

Honestly, besides the natural teleological questions this prompts, if I were transported back to the middle ages there's not all that much I'm sure I could invent. For example, I have no idea how a computer is actually built, from the ground-up. Maybe I could have a few acute scientific observations ("try penicillin!"; "use tungsten for your light bulb!", "b-b-boil that milk!") and I could probably derive Calculus. B…

You don't need to invent much. Think of what you already know:

Wash your hands before eating; boil the water before drinking; put toilet facilities downstream of drinking water; cover open wounds and keep them clean.

In short, you already know about the biggest contribution to human health: Just Stay Clean. Everything else is icing on the cake.

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