There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.
Would you have survived in the middle ages?
11–20 of 36 posts
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#12There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.
Speak for yourself, the nutrient rich food and especially the variety I eat each day was not available in the middle ages. Remember that people in the those times where much shorter (as proved by the shorter beds), this is the result of malnutrion.
Toxicity is likely to be higher then, open or no sewage systems, very low hygiene (people didn't bathe, lots of animals) and remember they used woodstoves in side the house!
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the contrary point: we are likely to find fixes for genetic diseases, halting the deterioration there.
And another point - how much would remain of an original nature-made human after that. So far, every optimization/fix we made to our body's protective system led to a more serious illness that would avoid the invented cure. I'm afraid fixes on gene level would open the door to the new kind of threat, it's a race we can't win. BTW, site shows http 403.
> how much would remain of an original nature-made human after that.
Humans have long been evolving in response to patterns of human behavior and technology. We're already partly artificial, so why not make it the artificiality we want, rather than the one we got by accident?
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#14This was my favorite kottke.org post from last year, "I wanted to ask for survival tips in case I am unexpectedly transported to a random location in Europe (say for instance current France/Benelux/Germany) in the year 1000 AD (plus or minus 200 years). I assume that such transportation would leave me with what I am wearing, what I know, and nothing else. Any advice would help." http://kottke.org/08/06/survival-tips-…
In reading the Kottke thread for about 30 mins (it rules), I just had this thought: What if Michaelangelo (or some other prolific inventors) weren't that special. What if they were simply average Joe's like you and me that were transported back in time. They used their basic knowledge of stuff around them to "invent" things.
Like this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#15Brings up the point of our continued evolution towards weaker bodies - the more cures we have for asthma, children's diabetes, etc., the more the people that have those ailments reproduce, and the more people there are with those ailments.
Actually humanity is not really part anymore of the "survival of the fittest" or evolutionary cycle. We are actively changing ourselves and starting, in laboratories at least, to modify genetics. Won't take long before parents can "modify" their children to be smarter, healthier, etc.
I disagree. We are no more not part of the evolutionary cycle than we are not part of planetary climate change. (Pardon the double negative).
Evolution is no more than genetic drift within a population through reproduction and variation shaped by selective pressure. What you describe as gene therapy could be seen as a selective pressure. But there are many selective pressures on large populations of humans and these selective pressure vary from one set to another. I do agree that the dynamics of selective pressures has changed for humans thanks to modern medicine. But I contest it still applies.
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#16This was my favorite kottke.org post from last year, "I wanted to ask for survival tips in case I am unexpectedly transported to a random location in Europe (say for instance current France/Benelux/Germany) in the year 1000 AD (plus or minus 200 years). I assume that such transportation would leave me with what I am wearing, what I know, and nothing else. Any advice would help." http://kottke.org/08/06/survival-tips-…
In reading the Kottke thread for about 30 mins (it rules), I just had this thought: What if Michaelangelo (or some other prolific inventors) weren't that special. What if they were simply average Joe's like you and me that were transported back in time. They used their basic knowledge of stuff around them to "invent" things.
Honestly, besides the natural teleological questions this prompts, if I were transported back to the middle ages there's not all that much I'm sure I could invent. For example, I have no idea how a computer is actually built, from the ground-up. Maybe I could have a few acute scientific observations ("try penicillin!"; "use tungsten for your light bulb!", "b-b-boil that milk!") and I could probably derive Calculus. But... that's about it. The vast majority of human knowledge is culturally transmitted; few humans have cumulative "clones" of the current "repository" of human knowledge stored in their memory.
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the contrary point: we are likely to find fixes for genetic diseases, halting the deterioration there.
And another point - how much would remain of an original nature-made human after that. So far, every optimization/fix we made to our body's protective system led to a more serious illness that would avoid the invented cure. I'm afraid fixes on gene level would open the door to the new kind of threat, it's a race we can't win. BTW, site shows http 403.
> BTW, site shows http 403.
Try proxy server. Any anonymous US proxy works for me. They seem to have crazy IP (spam?) filters that block many legitimate providers, including mine.
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#18There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.
I've just finished reading a history of medicine that claims that medicine's impact on prolonging life is miniscule, maybe 2% of the increase in live expectancy.
The biggest impact is childhood (and prenatal) nutrition and basic sanitation. So if you did get sent back to the middle ages, the diseases would be much less likely to kill you as you are generally much more robust as a result of your late 20th century upbringing, and you'd be less likely to get them as you would understand how they spread e.g. avoiding drinking water with human excrement in it. And of you course you didn't die in childbirth or shortly after, by conveniently being in a different century, which will put you above average in life span too.
And the big message from the book: avoid the doctors. They would actively be weakening you via bleeding, laxatives and emetics, right up until about the 1920s.
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#19There is an assuption here that the only infulential factor on health is genes. Environment could play an even stronger role. A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment and be consuming the chemical-laden nutrient deprived food that is standard fare today.
> A person in the middle ages wouldn't be surrounded by a toxic environment
Are you serious? You don't think living in a tiny room with 10 family members and all kinds of animals (along with all of the lice, fleas, diseases, etc. that go along), with a wood fire filling the whole place with eye-stinging, lung-choking smoke, was a "toxic environment"? You'd be eating mostly grains, with very occasionally some meat, and if it spoiled you'd still figure out some way to eat it, because otherwise you'd be going hungry altogether (and that would happen anyway, in poor harvest years). The water would be whatever you had nearby, probably infected with all kinds of pathogens from the excrement that would inevitably wind up there. You'd maybe have a sweat bath or sponge bath once every week or two if you were lucky, using the same water for the whole family. You certainly wouldn't have more than a few changes of clothes, which you'd wear for days or weeks at a time.
I suggest you spend some time with rural peasants in a developing country before arguing about toxic environments or nutrient-deprived food.
Re: Would you have survived in the middle ages?
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
In reading the Kottke thread for about 30 mins (it rules), I just had this thought: What if Michaelangelo (or some other prolific inventors) weren't that special. What if they were simply average Joe's like you and me that were transported back in time. They used their basic knowledge of stuff around them to "invent" things.
Honestly, besides the natural teleological questions this prompts, if I were transported back to the middle ages there's not all that much I'm sure I could invent. For example, I have no idea how a computer is actually built, from the ground-up. Maybe I could have a few acute scientific observations ("try penicillin!"; "use tungsten for your light bulb!", "b-b-boil that milk!") and I could probably derive Calculus. B…
Yes. Though knowing that certain directions are promising, would help. You know where to search.
For example, I could not build a steam engine, but I know enough to describe how one could build a basic atmospheric steam engine, and that to improve upon it, you'd need to separate the condensation of the steam from the rest of the engine.
But I guess I would have a lot of problems, convincing any sane medieval person to take my ideas seriously.