Feds, We Need Some Time Apart • Hacker News Board

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#61

Post by david_shaw » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:17 AM UTC

merlincorey wrote: post #57

david_shaw wrote: post #49

This is going to be my tenth (?!) year at DEF CON. The culture of DEF CON, and especially its evolution, is a very interesting one. When I first attended DEF CON, it was a bunch of seemingly scary hackers. Fortunately, it turns out most of them were amazing people. As the conference grew (and changed venues several times), the culture began to evolve. The barrier to entry--in terms of being "accepted" into the subcul…

I'm pretty sure this is a joke since DT himself can be considered a fed, and there are lots of Defcon leadership that work with/for the feds as well.

I considered that. And yeah, DT is definitely a federal employee.

I guess it depends on what you consider a 'fed.' Is a sysadmin at NASA a Fed? They are employed by the federal government...

Law enforcement--especially intelligence--is not going to be particularly well received this year. In the years I've attended, it's always a friendly sort of cat and mouse game. "You're the Fed, I'm the hacker, let's get a beer!" What with PRISM and domestic surveillance, though, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a serious effort by the con to reduce drama and distance itself from the intelligence and law enforcement communities.

Is General Alexander still keynoting Black Hat?

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#62

Post by munin » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:20 AM UTC

sillysaurus wrote: post #54

bobert92 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally, with like paintball guns or some other form of humiliation.

Wouldn't that be assaulting a federal agent?

or just assault?

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#63

Post by X-Istence » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:27 AM UTC

david_shaw wrote: post #49

This is going to be my tenth (?!) year at DEF CON. The culture of DEF CON, and especially its evolution, is a very interesting one. When I first attended DEF CON, it was a bunch of seemingly scary hackers. Fortunately, it turns out most of them were amazing people. As the conference grew (and changed venues several times), the culture began to evolve. The barrier to entry--in terms of being "accepted" into the subcul…

I've got certain friends working for the gov't at three letter agencies that this year have been explicitly told they are not allowed to attend DEF CON either under the banner of the agency or on their own time.

This was announced before this post by DT though.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#64

Post by X-Istence » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:31 AM UTC

merlincorey wrote: post #60

rawrly wrote: post #56

Defcon is cancelled.

Just confirmed on IRC, Defcon is cancelled.

Just got this confirmed through an anonymous source at DEF CON, it has indeed been canceled. With feds no longer being welcome there simply would not be enough money made from ticket sales to pay the costs for the venue.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#65

Post by X-Istence » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:32 AM UTC

fixxer wrote: post #39

dmoy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiting?

God help the poor schmucks left to run that booth this year. (I've never been; I presume it is like most other conferences and you've got a slough of bored recruiters staffing info booths?)

No info booths, they are lucky if they get a table, but even then outright using it for recruiting is not allowed. Last year they had an Enigma machine on display.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#66

Post by anonymous » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:36 AM UTC

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20095649-245/when-hackers-...

In the early years, DefCon founder Jeff Moss used to say "if you're 20 and you're working for The Man, you're a loser,"... "Ten years ago, Moss said 'if you're 30 and you're not working for The Man, you're a loser.' And now he agreed that at 40 he is The Man.'"

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#67

Post by cinquemb » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:40 AM UTC

david_shaw wrote: post #61

merlincorey wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure this is a joke since DT himself can be considered a fed, and there are lots of Defcon leadership that work with/for the feds as well.

I considered that. And yeah, DT is definitely a federal employee. I guess it depends on what you consider a 'fed.' Is a sysadmin at NASA a Fed? They are employed by the federal government... Law enforcement--especially intelligence--is not going to be particularly well received this year. In the years I've attended, it's always a friendly sort of cat and mouse game. "You're the Fed, I'm the hacker, let's get a beer!"…

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a serious effort by the con to reduce drama and distance itself from the intelligence and law enforcement communities.

Despite practically being in bed together, and all that is supposed to change just like that? It seems like some sick joke, from the outside looking in of course…

Then again, it has more or less always been this way and maybe things seem different now that the tide has receded a bit…

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#68

Post by anonymous » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:40 AM UTC

I will attempt to translate Jeff's short message:

In light of recent events, this is not an opportune time for recruiting and so the feds will not be attending the conference in their usual numbers. However, they will of course still be monitoring all communcations at the event, so they will be there in spirit.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#69

Post by rdl » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:44 AM UTC

I was assuming Defcon 21 would be down on fed count this year due to 1) the sequester hurting travel budgets and 2) recent (well, in the past year) high profile wasting of money in Las Vegas by the GSA.

There's also OHM running in parallel, which will draw off some of the European attendees (probably not law enforcement/intel, though). If I got to pick between OHM and PW/BS/BH/DC (all 4 running in Las Vegas that week), I'd probably pick Ohm.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#70

Post by msandford » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 5:45 AM UTC

grogenaut wrote: post #59

msandford wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ostracized by who? People in the media or regular working class folk who pay plenty but get little? My parents both work and make money and the only real benefits that they have gotten as a result of trillions spent on war is that they'll continue to pay taxes for the rehabilitation of the soldiers whose bodies and lives have been destroyed. They MIGHT collect on social security, etc but given that they're still at l…

They get sub $5 gas. That's what the money is being spent on.

The average car is driven say 10k miles per year. At 20mpg that's 500 gallons of gas. At $4 per gallon, it's $2k. At $8 per gallon, that's $4k. A difference of only $2k.

I'm not sure that the money on wars is well spent (even in a callous, dollars only sense) if it's saving the average household $4k a year in gas money (two cars).