Feds, We Need Some Time Apart • Hacker News Board

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#31

Post by eli » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:31 AM UTC

throwawayDC21 wrote: post #29

codyb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will this actually affect the feds ability to attend or will they just attend in plain clothes? Or will they be able to attend as feds and just be looked down upon?

There is nothing to mark them as feds, payments are in cash and everyone is in plain clothes. I think this will make very little difference to who attends. It is also worth mentioning that Black Hat (the two days preceding DEF CON) has reportedly seen a drop in registrations due to lack of funding for federal employees to attend (I have no source for this other than industry rumor). There was a suggestion that some w…

It's definitely plausible. Slashed travel and conference budgets have been a major result of the sequester.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#32

Post by ENOTTY » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:36 AM UTC

So I assume Dark Tangent won't attend his own con? Jeff Moss sits on the Homeland Security Advisory Board and is the CSO of ICANN.[1] If that's not "the man", I don't know what is.

[1] http://www.dhs.gov/homeland-security-advisory-council-member...

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#33

Post by btipling » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:40 AM UTC

welder wrote: post #18

codyb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will this actually affect the feds ability to attend or will they just attend in plain clothes? Or will they be able to attend as feds and just be looked down upon?

Feds always attend in plain clothes so this effectively does nothing. I also wonder if a Fed only means investigative or law enforcement type Feds or also includes federally employed IT peoples.

iamtherockstar you are hellbanned. Your comment appears as dead. I tell you because you made an informative comment. Looks like it happened about a month ago.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#34

Post by beefman » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:40 AM UTC

codyb wrote: post #15

danielsiders wrote: post #10

Entry (since the site is down): "Feds, we need some time apart. Posted 7.10.13 For over two decades DEF CON has been an open nexus of hacker culture, a place where seasoned pros, hackers, academics, and feds can meet, share ideas and party on neutral territory. Our community operates in the spirit of openness, verified trust, and mutual respect. When it comes to sharing and socializing with feds, recent revelations h…

Will this actually affect the feds ability to attend or will they just attend in plain clothes? Or will they be able to attend as feds and just be looked down upon?

It may affect their ability to recruit.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#35

Post by britta » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:42 AM UTC

maqr wrote: post #21

Does a "time-out" mean that they're discouraged from attending or that they won't be issued badges?

They are politely discouraged from attending. I imagine that a person who says "I'm a fed" while buying a badge would not be issued one, but Defcon has no way to avoid issuing badges to feds who don't disclose their status.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#36

Post by _delirium » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:43 AM UTC

A curious aspect is that the person who wrote this message (Jeff Moss) is actually a fed himself. Does he plan to exclude himself from the conference?

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#37

Post by msandford » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:44 AM UTC

bittired wrote: post #26

cheez wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more about making a statement than anything else. Will the information still reach the feds? Sure. But the request is deliberately creating a delineation: the government is no longer for the people or part of the people, it exists for it's own sake. Will the government understand and ramp itself down? Whatever you thought about Ron Paul, his politics would have prevented all of this. All of the wars. All the…

> Whatever you thought about Ron Paul, his politics would have prevented all of this. All of the wars. All the foreign aid. And we would live in paradise ;) This made me laugh. Considering how much Republicans and Tea Partiers are ostracized for making cuts, just imagine how much people would come down on a fiscally conservative basically Libertarian candidate in 2016 (even if he runs as a Republican).

Ostracized by who? People in the media or regular working class folk who pay plenty but get little?

My parents both work and make money and the only real benefits that they have gotten as a result of trillions spent on war is that they'll continue to pay taxes for the rehabilitation of the soldiers whose bodies and lives have been destroyed.

They MIGHT collect on social security, etc but given that they're still at least 10 years from retirement, it's certainly nothing they can count on.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#38

Post by corq » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:49 AM UTC

throwawayDC21 wrote: post #29

codyb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will this actually affect the feds ability to attend or will they just attend in plain clothes? Or will they be able to attend as feds and just be looked down upon?

There is nothing to mark them as feds, payments are in cash and everyone is in plain clothes. I think this will make very little difference to who attends. It is also worth mentioning that Black Hat (the two days preceding DEF CON) has reportedly seen a drop in registrations due to lack of funding for federal employees to attend (I have no source for this other than industry rumor). There was a suggestion that some w…

A good number of the Feds seem to enjoy self-identifying. Many will still attend, but the chemistry will definitely be different.

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#39

Post by fixxer » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:49 AM UTC

dmoy wrote: post #25

Canada wrote: post #23

The feds have all the 0 day and privileged access now. What do they need Def Con for anyway? Well, I guess they'll miss out on getting drunk.

Recruiting?

God help the poor schmucks left to run that booth this year.

(I've never been; I presume it is like most other conferences and you've got a slough of bored recruiters staffing info booths?)

Re: Feds, We Need Some Time Apart

#40

Post by mirkules » Thu, Jul 11, 2013, 3:50 AM UTC

I'm skeptical. For the past few years that I've been attending, defcon felt at some times like an instrument for fed recruiting while paying lip service to its original "underground" feel. DT's message almost felt like posturing to underline the latter rather than a sincere statement to curtail the former. I won't pretend that I'm a long time attendee (my first was DC16), so I would love to hear from some more seasoned attendees if my impression is correct.

Edit: the reason for that impression is that there is no declaration of a policy in his message (e.g. "feds are prohibited from soliciting employees at DC21"), rather a soft "time-out". With all due respect to DT, neither we nor the feds are in the third grade. Contrast this with their strict journalist policy and recall how that undercover reporter was outed and kicked out/chased away a few years ago.