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Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

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191–200 of 254 posts

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#191

Yet another reason to not have guns in your house. If you get raided by overzealous police that don't even identify themselves properly, and you have a gun that you try to use for self defense... EOF

In other words, you shouldn't have a gun because some scary men might break into your house and point their guns at you.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#192

One of my best friends is NYPD working in the projects in Brownsville NY, one of the most dangerous cities in NYC. From the stories he tells me, he is fighting a war. Of course, that's not applicable to most other areas, but it's worth noting that when your day-to-day job is dealing with the criminals and scum of the earth, it changes your perspective on life.

There is at least two sides to every war. Dissarmerment has to start somewhere.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get me wrong, they're both awful. Prisons as we know them are a travesty of both efficacy and human decency no matter who runs the show. But whatever perverse incentives and moral hazards already exist for state prisons, they are double when there is a profit motive for maximizing headcount. Moreover, the taxpayer still ends up footing most of the bill for private prisons; in state-run institutions, they at lea…

OK. I thought you were referring to the morality of working while in person as opposed to idling. Given your comment, it seems like you weren't---and yet your previous comment seems to imply it. So why refer to private prisons as "nothing more slave labor camps" while public prisons could just as easily be "nothing more than slave camps"? I now understand that you were criticizing the incentive structure of prisons,…

> Perhaps, crony prisons or quasi-public prisons?

Very true, and equally applicable to many other "private" companies (Lockheed-Martin comes to mind).

> How can this be true while tax payers are simultaneously footing the bill?

Private prisons (that include inmate labor) charge from both ends: per-head to the taxpayer (ostensibly at a lower rate than if the state handled it in-house), and per-hour to businesses seeking cheap labor. State prisons have only the first incentive, with the countervailing force of finite tax revenue.

Also, the prison guard unions have the same incentive to lobby (and/or support the lobbying of their parent corporation) regardless of who signs their checks. I would claim that union influence and lobbying is a constant in either case.

> But when there are unions, and the jobs of union members depends on the number of prisoners, it becomes much less clear.

Agreed. It is bad policy and a waste of taxes in either case.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#194
post #129

Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…

"Today in the US, if you call 911 about an emergency medical condition, they will often send a fire engine along with an ambulance [...]" This is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). 1. Imagine a scenario where an ambulance arrives as a first responder, and the EMTs [1] find that they cannot gain access to the emergency scene, because the home or other structure is locked or otherwise blocked. In this case, a firetruc…

I needed an ambulance in a state park and they sent a fire truck too. When I asked the EMT from the ambulance why the firetruck, she responded "they're our toolbox."

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a HazMat team? Imagine a scenario where the EMTs cannot gain access to the emergency scene because there are toxic substances in their way. You can't rely on the incoming 911 calls to decide on a case by case basis so you might as well send a HazMat team alongside the ambulance and firetruck for each and every call. And what about an anti-terrorist unit? Imagine a scenario where...

If those were as common as fires and doors being deadbolted closed with child 911 callers, we might do it. You act as if the scenarios outlined by the parent are as rare as biohazard emergencies.

>as common as fires and doors being deadbolted closed with child 911 callers

Are there any statistics on the number of cases on which a firetruck was really needed?

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#196

Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…

"Today in the US, if you call 911 about an emergency medical condition, they will often send a fire engine along with an ambulance and a cop. It makes me wonder if firemen and firewomen are so underutilized they've ended up with mostly make-work."

In response to a similar observation that I once made, a friend suggested that police at a non-law enforcement emergency act as ad hoc project managers. "You need what, Mr. EMT? I'll have it for you directly, and I'll have those cars blocking access towed too. ... You lot! Back away!"

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#197
post #129

Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…

"Today in the US, if you call 911 about an emergency medical condition, they will often send a fire engine along with an ambulance [...]" This is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). 1. Imagine a scenario where an ambulance arrives as a first responder, and the EMTs [1] find that they cannot gain access to the emergency scene, because the home or other structure is locked or otherwise blocked. In this case, a firetruc…

I thought the reason the red fire ambulance needed to be around was because regular EMTs aren't allowed to administer oxygen do to its high flammability, which important in many emergencies. This according to one EMT that I know.

In general, the EMTs you see carrying out an elderly woman are people with a few months of training. When people are getting stabbed, shot, or on the brink of life, you sort of need people with better training.

https://www.cpc.mednet.ucla.edu/node/27

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#198
post #148
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but a lot of these murders are gang related so it isn't quite a great comparison not? I know the topics of guns in america is a hot topic in general but even for the usa the general trend is downward.

I've never understood the argument that somehow gang crime isn't crime that should make it to the statistics books.

And that wasn't my point at all. My point being gang on gang violence perpetuated by societal issues (say for Chicago black gang members) isn't a great comparison of 2.7 million people in Chicago and N deaths/murders versus N million people in $western_country with N/4 murders isn't really describing the issues. It alludes the issues as being related to things which are fundamentally different and not directly or easily statistically comparable.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#199
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood the argument that somehow gang crime isn't crime that should make it to the statistics books.

And that wasn't my point at all. My point being gang on gang violence perpetuated by societal issues (say for Chicago black gang members) isn't a great comparison of 2.7 million people in Chicago and N deaths/murders versus N million people in $western_country with N/4 murders isn't really describing the issues. It alludes the issues as being related to things which are fundamentally different and not directly or eas…

I used to live in Chicago. The fact that almost all murders in Chicago happen to blacks and Hispanics, many of them in gangs, doesn't reduce people's incentive to support stronger police presence. Indeed, it makes it easier. You fear the gangs taking the red line up to the north side, but don't care so much about more aggressive policing because those cops aren't kicking down doors in your neighborhood.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those were as common as fires and doors being deadbolted closed with child 911 callers, we might do it. You act as if the scenarios outlined by the parent are as rare as biohazard emergencies.

>as common as fires and doors being deadbolted closed with child 911 callers Are there any statistics on the number of cases on which a firetruck was really needed?

Fire trucks do more then put out fires by the way. People seem to forget that a lot. They also have car tools, ladders, and other stuff.
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