Yet another reason to not have guns in your house.
If you get raided by overzealous police that don't even identify themselves properly, and you have a gun that you try to use for self defense... EOF
Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
171–180 of 254 posts
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#172Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…
"Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high." Isn't this cause and effect? Crime is lower because we are hiring more policemen. That is certainly one conclusion from Freakonomics. This is just a digression, because I do think the "Cops as Warriors" model is very scary, as "collateral damage" becomes acceptable in a war.
About now I usually are the below story quoted. It's such a fascinating read that I'll stick it in as someone may not have seen it. Leaded petrol and crime.
http://m.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9790009/Was-lea...
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#173Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…
"Today in the US, if you call 911 about an emergency medical condition, they will often send a fire engine along with an ambulance and a cop. It makes me wonder if firemen and firewomen are so underutilized they've ended up with mostly make-work." One of the reasons for this is also that fire stations are often far closer to the scene of a call (fire suppression being something that benefits from being distributed vs…
You also get a bill for $400 for the firetruck and $10 for each fireman
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#174Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…
"Today in the US, if you call 911 about an emergency medical condition, they will often send a fire engine along with an ambulance [...]" This is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). 1. Imagine a scenario where an ambulance arrives as a first responder, and the EMTs [1] find that they cannot gain access to the emergency scene, because the home or other structure is locked or otherwise blocked. In this case, a firetruc…
How about a HazMat team? Imagine a scenario where the EMTs cannot gain access to the emergency scene because there are toxic substances in their way. You can't rely on the incoming 911 calls to decide on a case by case basis so you might as well send a HazMat team alongside the ambulance and firetruck for each and every call.
And what about an anti-terrorist unit? Imagine a scenario where...
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#175As with everything else it seems to be a case of misplaced incentives, both good and bad.
Imagine in 2 out of every 100 raids (numbers completely made up of course) that these style raids are called for - the people inside are incredibly dangerous and bargin in unannounced is the safest thing to do. Based on what I've read these police forces seem to treat every situation like this. Whether a hardened criminal or some dude playing poker with his friends they assume the worst and barge in guns a blazing.
And what happens? 2 times out of 100 they nail the bad guys and are probably congratulated on the local news and within the department. And the other 98 times? Nothing. They hand out some minor violations and leave, none the worse for it. Or again that's what it seems the case is based on these articles. So why wouldn't they just barge in and do whatever the hell they want. They are either heroes or the people they are terrorizing have no way to fight back. There needs to be some way to either punish them for this or positively incentivize more civil raids/raiding at all.
As the financial crisis showed us, bankers would bet the country if it meant they get a bigger bonus. It seems we are a point where the police will essentially do the same.
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Murders are WAY down from their peaks in the 90's. And that's across the board. So what violence are they encountering now, that they didn't encounter in... say ... '93 when they had no APC?
Again, devil's advocate. The Hollywood Shootout was in 97. Murders might be down, but I don't think it's murder rates alone that drive policy in the area.
Yeah... but that's still the 90's???
Again.. what violence are they seeing now, that they did not see at that time?
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#177It's interesting to contrast the approach taken in different countries. I spent the majority of my life in New Zealand but the last 9 years in the UK so I've witnessed it first hand.
Within the first couple of months of arriving here (London) I had attended several large gatherings, for example festivals in and out of London, and there was a marked difference in the police handling. I was genuinely surprised when I realised that the police controlling the events were interested in the safety and enjoyment of the public. They weren't looking to stir up trouble, they weren't searching for the "bad eggs" to antagonise - they were just trying to do their best to control the situation by working with those involved.
In my time in NZ I saw the police carry out all sorts of actions that were completely unnecessary.
I saw someone arrested for overloading a car with people leaving a party - prior to that I watched the police insist that the driver allow the car to be overloaded in the first place.
I was once tripped from behind by the police (on the pavement) for walking alongside a protest on my way home from University.
Might not seem like big issues but I've seen countless similar examples where the police were actually responsible for instigating the problem.
There's very much an Us vs Them attitude in NZ that, thankfully, isn't the norm in the UK (for the moment).
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
Murders are WAY down from their peaks in the 90's. And that's across the board. So what violence are they encountering now, that they didn't encounter in... say ... '93 when they had no APC?
In continuing the devil's advocate angle here, there is a lot of scary stuff going on in Mexico right now. Some of that spilling over the border(or more realistically, the people and equipment are already here just unnoticed) is a possibility.
But that's supposition. Have there been any border skirmishes, or skirmishes in cities with large Hispanic populations, (I assume you are talking about Mexican Cartels), where the police faced these well equipped Mexican Cartels?
I don't know if there have or haven't... that was not snark, but a serious question. My suspicion is that there have not been any such engagements.
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Sub-segments of the population don't viscerally hate each other in Frankfurt or London the way they do in L.A. or Detroit." Belfast still has road barriers that are raised at night blocking roads between the Shankill Road and Falls Road areas - not to mention huge walls: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines Edit: To be fair, I agree with your point, but there are some very noticeable dividing lines in European c…
Yeah, that's an extremely exceptional case and related to a centuries-old political conflict between nations. I'm Irish, you can't generalize from Belfast to anywhere else except maybe Israel/Palestine.
There are actually quite a few, and though I'm surely missing 10+, here goes. Serbia/Montenegro/Kosovo, Kashmir (though someone made civil war simpler by dividing those into countries) Sri Lanka, Syria, Iraq, The Sudan, Somalia, Congo, Timor, Cyprus, Afghanistan, Pakistan. None are the same, most are significantly more violent and have rather less western involvement in stabilizing rather than just supporting one side or totally ignoring it.
This isn't minimizing the Irish situation, its just saying that the Irish one is generally appreciated as a complex mess, while the other myriad array of violent, messy historical problems are equally sad.
Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
In continuing the devil's advocate angle here, there is a lot of scary stuff going on in Mexico right now. Some of that spilling over the border(or more realistically, the people and equipment are already here just unnoticed) is a possibility.
But that's supposition. Have there been any border skirmishes, or skirmishes in cities with large Hispanic populations, (I assume you are talking about Mexican Cartels), where the police faced these well equipped Mexican Cartels? I don't know if there have or haven't... that was not snark, but a serious question. My suspicion is that there have not been any such engagements.
No. Cartel crime is almost exclusively in Mexico.