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Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

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Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#111

Post by matwood »

Moral_ wrote: post #91
chc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it was a 20-year-old college student with a 12-pack of water, and they failed to break her windows because she drove away when the crowd of large men ran up and started beating on her car, and then they charged her with assault.

The charges were dropped.

a) The charges should have never been filed.

b) The police should have been suspended and/or fired. Even if the girl did buy a 12 pack of beer, the level of force used was beyond excessive for the crime they thought occurred.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#112

Post by darkarmani »

Shivetya wrote: post #9

Simple, do you see the limits to preventive actions they can take in most cities? Have you read how "rights" activist are going to strip NYC cops from doing just that which has resulted in an incredible drop in murders and similar crimes? We got there because we stopped police from policing and instead forced them to respond to situations left to build until they explode. We got there by telling them, no you can't lo…

> Simple, do you see the limits to preventive actions they can take in most cities?

No, what limits?

> Have you read how "rights" activist are going to strip NYC cops from doing just that which has resulted in an incredible drop in murders and similar crimes?

NYC cops were never allowed to give abortions, so I'm not sure how any changes are going to affect the crime rate.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#113

Post by tolmasky »

mathattack wrote: post #101
nostromo wrote: post #80

Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…

"Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high." Isn't this cause and effect? Crime is lower because we are hiring more policemen. That is certainly one conclusion from Freakonomics. This is just a digression, because I do think the "Cops as Warriors" model is very scary, as "collateral damage" becomes acceptable in a war.

But if spending AND crime were at an all time high wed be saying that its cause and affect in the other direction and probably be making the argument that we need even more spending! So no matter what high budgets are always justified.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#114

Post by mike_herrera »

rayiner wrote: post #89
nostromo wrote: post #80

Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…

> Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. Two words: public unions.

> Two words: public unions.

Citation needed.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#115

Post by D9u »

Here in Hawai'i, we're lucky to have small communities, from which many of our police officers are enlisted, thus maintaining more of sense that we are all part of the same class, as well as the fact that many officers are related to people in the communities, so there is less disconnection and stratification than one would see in larger metropolitan areas.

I've been on both sides of the law here, and have always been treated with the utmost respect and humanity, even when I didn't deserve such. (a couple of drunken incidents, which will shame me for the rest of my days)

Sure our local police force has an armored, Lenco Bearcat, which they rarely use, but such measures are necessary in today's world - where criminals possess military-grade weapons.

This is not to say that I disagree with the article, as it's plain to see that the points made in the article are valid for a large portion of the USA.

I guess all I can say is... Lucky we live Hawai'i!

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#116

Post by dragonwriter »

drharris wrote: post #41
gknoy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must have a different definition of "effective" than I do. Prison is like graduate school for criminal behavior.

He didn't say they get back out.

Crime still happens in jail. If you put everyone (presumably, except for the jail guards) in jail, you don't reduce the crime rate, you increase it and change the location.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#117

Post by D9u »

rayiner wrote: post #103
wwhitman wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it inconceivable that crime is lower due to more police on the streets and more criminals in jail?

I think that's true, but I also think it's true that it would be possible for police forces to demobilize a bit, instead of continuing their ramp-up. It's like invading Iraq. The police went in and broke the criminal gangs and organized crime. What's needed now is nation building, so to speak. The crime that's left is leaderless gangs of youths shooting each other up in turf wars, and SWAT teams aren't the answer to…

Excellent point about nation building...

Too bad we're doing that nation building away from home.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#118

Post by tolmasky »

Spooky23 wrote: post #43
jimzvz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a policeman has access to body armor and machine guns to serve a warrant on some guy in a house, he will take them along. The cop has no idea who may be behind a door when they knock -- they may be intoxicated/high, have a vicious pit bull, or just be a scared kid with a gun and nothing to lose. The policeman wants to go home to see his kids at the end of his shift. Uh, shouldn't this information be available base…

Easy for a guy sitting in a chair in front of a computer to say. I'm not justifying the behavior, I'm trying to illuminate why it's happening. You're attributing responsibility for a situation to people who don't make decisions. Society has made choices (let's move to the burbs to get away from those poor folk) and your representatives have enacted laws that have created all sorts of absurd situations. And we drop po…

> Easy for a guy sitting in a chair in front of a computer to say.

I'm sorry but last time I checked there was no police draft, these officers chose this line of work and were made aware or the risks and responsibilities (and pay) involved. I agree that the sureounding circumstances are partially at fault, but you make it seem as if these guys are bystanders thrown into thee situations with no culpability of their own.

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#119

Post by mililani »

nostromo wrote: post #80

Crime is at an all-time low yet spending on police is near an all-time high. (Those factors could have a causal relationship, but I doubt it's the primary cause based on reading "The Better Angels of Our Nature".) http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2010... Having big budgets but less crime means these swollen budgets end up being wasted on a lot of "fun" things like military gear. (Did you know t…

I believe crime is at an all time low because everyone is in prison.

http://dcj.state.co.us/ors/images/Stats%20Images/crime%20rat...

Re: Too Many Cops Are Told They’re Soldiers Fighting a War. How Did We Get Here?

#120

Post by mililani »

D9u wrote: post #115

Here in Hawai'i, we're lucky to have small communities, from which many of our police officers are enlisted, thus maintaining more of sense that we are all part of the same class, as well as the fact that many officers are related to people in the communities, so there is less disconnection and stratification than one would see in larger metropolitan areas. I've been on both sides of the law here, and have always bee…

I find that hard to believe. I grew up in Hawaii, and I have come across lots of dick head cops engaging in some heinous activities. I have several friends from Oahu who would also agree with my statement.
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