Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident • Hacker News Board

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#391

Post by sadawi » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 2:45 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #382

sequoia wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an explicitly enumerated right in the USA, but a "right" in the same way freedom to walk down the sidewalk is a "right": you're not endangering peoples' lives & it's not explicitly prohibited so you "have a right" to do it. If someone attempted to prevent you from walking down the sidewalk they would be denying you that "right." Driving a motor vehicle does endanger peoples' lives, so we (society) decided you don…

you're not endangering peoples' lives This is regrettably untrue. There are far fewer deaths from bicyclists, of course, but if you google you'll see that there's about one a year. Although I'm pro-cycling I have to say I particularly dislike that segment of cycling community which seems to have the attitude that they not only have right of way at all times against cars, but also against pedestrians; I have had far m…

One per year? Compared to cars, food poisoning, bathtubs, ladders, and almost anything else you can think of, that's close enough to zero to be a non-issue.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#392

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 3:47 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #86

oinksoft wrote: post #64

The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, they are given lip service at best in driver education and there is little attempt made at going after motorists who drive aggressively around them. As a result, you put yourself at great risk of life and limb when you ride on a road like this one: http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 (Hillandale Rd, Durham, NC) I accomplish all of my…

I only ride my bike on dedicated bike lanes (by "dedicated" I mean those blocked from the main road) and bike paths. Everywhere else, I ride on the sidewalk. Fortunately, most sidewalks where I live are sparsely populated, and I make sure to slow down to walking speed or dismount completely when going through areas with lots of pedestrians. Someone told me I could get cited for riding my bike on a sidewalk. Fuck that…

Everywhere else, I ride on the sidewalk.

Stop doing that. [DELETED EPITHET].

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#393

Post by clarky07 » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 3:50 AM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #386

clarky07 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? From the cited article giving that stat - "a mile of driving is ten times safer than a mile of cycling". You might argue that cycling is safe. You can't argue that it is safer. It simply isn't.

Cycling on its own is very safe, it's the cars that are dangerous.

True, but that's a silly assertion. Cars by themselves are pretty safe. It's the other cars that cause problems. Since the cars are there, biking is more dangerous than being in another car.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#394

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 3:57 AM UTC

xanderstrike wrote: post #60

danso wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fatal vehicle accidents are not always vehicular homicide/manslaughter. A standard of negligence (such as being past the DUI limit) has to be established. Hit-and-run also does not necessarily result in a homicide (or assault) charge being filed.

Someone struck him with a car and killed him. I think leaving the scene after killing someone with a vehicle should satisfy any any standard of negligence.

Let me paint you a picture - an accurate picture, as agreed by both parties in a court of law. Whilst I did not witness the incident, I was an EMS responder. And whilst this did not end in a death, there are many a parallel.

A young man, in a hurry, changes his plans, and driving. He pulls in to an old fire station, turned scout hall, where some boy scouts are having a meeting. In the courtyard that was the engine apron, he yanks the steering wheel and makes his wheels squeal, sprays a little gravel.

Two parents who are outside waiting for their children yell at him. He gives them the finger. They say he's a dangerous driver and that they're calling the cops, and he'd better stay. He says "No, I'm leaving". Voices are raised.

The driver decides no, he really is leaving. The parents decide (rightly or wrongly) that he isn't - they're making a citizen's arrest. He puts his car in gear. From each side, at the same time, the parents open his car door.

They admit that it's to stop him.

He admits he panics. He puts the car in reverse and hits the accelerator - the open doors catch both parents and knock them down. The older parent breaks his hip.

The younger one, however - much worse. His head is caught between the asphalt and the bottom of the car door, and as he reverses, the man's head is dribbled almost like a basketball between the two, before the driver gets free, and flees the scene.

The other parents call the police (and EMS). The driver is picked up nearby and charged with vehicular assault and leaving the scene.

Had he, however, left the scene and immediately called 911, the parents would have been the ones charged, with kidnapping / false imprisonment. The driver's defense, and one which stood in court a great deal, was that the parents had already demonstrated a willingness to physically restrain him against his will for a tenuous "crime", and after his panic, who is to say that he wouldn't be in further physical danger?

The younger driver, as it happens, recovered fully - after an intracranial hemorrhage, surgery, a medically-induced coma, and a 1 1/2" hole placed in his skull to drain blood.

So, no - be careful to paint such broad black and white brush strokes.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#395

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 3:59 AM UTC

blinkingled wrote: post #314

ldh wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People, avoid driving on roads, especially after dark. There's too much risk involved in your negligent handling of several thousand pounds of metal for it to be worth carelessly ending the life of somebody simply going about their business using public infrastructure that they pay for and use in a manner much less obtrusive and obnoxious than your own.

I guess you are also a proponent of walking through shady neighborhoods at late nights then? While at it, do you also recommend carrying a holier than thou placard to appeal any wandering criminals to change their ways? :)

I thought it was obvious that you should be biking through your neighborhood. Why would you walk?

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#396

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 4:13 AM UTC

droopybuns wrote: post #390

xioxox wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For goodness, stop this hyperbole. At least in the UK, the health benefits of cycling far outweigh the danger: http://cyclehelmets.org/1015.html

I do not think you understand the definition of hyperbole. I live 40 minutes outside of Seattle, in a rural area that is considered a great destination for a full day weekend bike loop. Our highways are curvy, have very little shoulders and are regularly traveled by speeding logging trucks. I am a former biker. I know what I have seen and it is just not a safe hobby. Your disagreement with the reality of a 50 ton tru…

You're letting your perception of a local situation determine a proposition about the entire concept of bicycling. That is exaggeration and that is hyperbole.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#397

Post by nnq » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:32 AM UTC

alxndr wrote: post #256

nnq wrote: post #213

I used to drive a bike trafficked roads, even at night, but I stopped doing this after almost hitting a biker while driving when I realized how hard it is for a driver to see and avoid bikers in traffic or for bikers to go through heavy trafficked area safely. Driving a bike through traffic or on a trafficked road at night or driving through a bikers area is basically the same as driving while drunk and stoned at the…

...wow. Maybe you shouldn't be driving.

we all supraevaluate our competencies in lots of areas, including driving. I haven't ever actually hit anyone and I adopted a more prudent driving style in biker areas since, but I'm just being realistic about it and recognize the fact that I tended to be over confident in my driving skills, and considering that most people I know have equal or worse driving skills, I can only assume that they also supraevaluate theirs (maybe other would have just rationalized an "almost hit accident" and think something along the lines of "if my reflexes were good enough to avoid it this time, they will be good enough to avoid it next time too" and ignore the statistical side of things). And I would never do a hit-and-run but I'm realistic about assuming lots of people will be tempted to do so and some will give in to this temptation (imagine hitting someone in a foreign country and contemplating the possibility of spending time in a foreign jail for this!).

...that's why I really think that driving is and area where machines can get to be much better than humans and really hope to see thing's like Google's autonomous car perfected and used.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#398

Post by nnq » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 5:43 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #298

nnq wrote: post #213

I used to drive a bike trafficked roads, even at night, but I stopped doing this after almost hitting a biker while driving when I realized how hard it is for a driver to see and avoid bikers in traffic or for bikers to go through heavy trafficked area safely. Driving a bike through traffic or on a trafficked road at night or driving through a bikers area is basically the same as driving while drunk and stoned at the…

> though if you do it, have at least the freakin decency and humanity to call an ambulance before running from the scene Due to the non-anonymous nature of current telephones, this is impossible.

...there's a very simple non-technical solution to this, but I won't tell you (read: "everyone" instead of "you" as we're on a public forum) what the solution is because after knowing it you may be more tempted to flee from an accident scene (you can probably figure out the solution by yourself if you have a brain and an opsec oriented mind) and I'd feel morally responsive for it :P

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#399

Post by bathat » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 7:33 AM UTC

epochwolf wrote: post #336

PetrolMan wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bike lanes apparently don't help as much as you'd think. There is a psychological aspect to providing a bike lane that makes car drivers think that bikers are already protected by the lane, meaning, in the end, that they don't actually give bikers as much room. Edit: Bike lanes increase safety but I just added it to point out that it's a relatively complicated situation. I think lower speeds were the biggest factor t…

Bike lanes also don't help when bikers weave in and out of it.

Drivers opening their doors into the bike lane without looking doesn't help cyclists avoid weaving in and out of it. And before you say anything: In California (and I believe this is true in many other states), opening your door into traffic (and, yes, cyclists count as traffic) automatically puts you at fault in the even of an accident or incident.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#400

Post by bathat » Wed, Jul 10, 2013, 7:45 AM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #361

alxndr wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going anecdotes, I can't remember the last time I saw a car stop at a stop sign either. http://www.cyclelicio.us/2013/stop-sign-compliance-temecula-...

i understand you're being snarky, or perhaps willfully defiant/facetiously ignorant despite your common-sense understanding of the difference, and you probably are a bicyclist, but a car that slows to an almost-stop is much different than a bicycle that just completely blows through it at full-speed without even slowing down, which is pretty much what all bikes do here in southern california. where I live, anyone who…

Meta: go!

Interesting... I've noticed your username above several rather anti-social comments in several different threads over the last day or so. I wonder why.

/Meta

To be honest, I don't think alxndr was being snarky. I see plenty of drivers plow through stop signs at 5-10 mph. I also see plenty of people on bikes plow through stop signs at 5-10 mph. Both are in the wrong, but the fact that the person on the bike was going the same speed before the stop-sign doesn't seem hugely relevant to me. What does seem relevant is that plowing through at 5-10 mph in a car is far more likely to injure or kill a pedestrian or cyclists than doing so in a car, for simple reasons of mass and vehicle width.

Frankly, your little rant sounds like the self-serving justification I usually hear from several of my friends and relatives for raging at cyclists. Those friends and relatives are among the least courteous and defensive (that is to say, the most dangerous towards other drivers and cyclists around them) drivers I've ridden with. I hope for your sake and mine that you are not like that.