Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

boingboing.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 62 posts

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#31

Post by stfu »

rafaelm wrote: post #19
stfu wrote: post #14

Yes, his is incredibly bad stuff. But let me put it into context: I would love to read a similar run down on what amount of money, intelligence and human resources the US has pured so far in the Venezuelan opposition. After the Cuban fiasco these actions became definitely less outrageous, but it seems save to assume that the US is not standing on the sidelines at election time in counties with a US critical governmen…

So because there is a "threat" from a foreign nation, the government is allowed to spy on its citizens critical of the government and expose them and ridicule them live on national TV? Sounds very similar to the "terrorist threat" excuse another surveillance state is using.

I am not saying that it is right. But I just don't know how a non-US compliant government can stay in power without questionable tactics.

If you create enough internal fraction by pumping up a pro-US opposition and external through embargos and sanctions, even the most anti-US electorate will soon or later question their positions.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#32

Post by stfu »

grey-area wrote: post #23
stfu wrote: post #14

Yes, his is incredibly bad stuff. But let me put it into context: I would love to read a similar run down on what amount of money, intelligence and human resources the US has pured so far in the Venezuelan opposition. After the Cuban fiasco these actions became definitely less outrageous, but it seems save to assume that the US is not standing on the sidelines at election time in counties with a US critical governmen…

I would love to read a similar run down on what amount of money, intelligence and human resources the US has pured so far in the Venezuelan opposition. Do we really need to take sides here? Can't both states be doing bad things, just as other governments are also doing things that will lead down this path? The US has a reputation as a bully internationally for good reason, but that doesn't mean their enemies are with…

I am myself struggling with my post. But I just don't see how a nation can withstand US power in the long run without dirty tactics or becoming some outpost of another superpower.

It looks to me that even the Snowden case has shown so far little to no consequences for the US internal situation. But it has shown that a counter point to the US perspective is internationally needed.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#33

Post by rafaelm »

stfu wrote: post #31
rafaelm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because there is a "threat" from a foreign nation, the government is allowed to spy on its citizens critical of the government and expose them and ridicule them live on national TV? Sounds very similar to the "terrorist threat" excuse another surveillance state is using.

I am not saying that it is right. But I just don't know how a non-US compliant government can stay in power without questionable tactics. If you create enough internal fraction by pumping up a pro-US opposition and external through embargos and sanctions, even the most anti-US electorate will soon or later question their positions.

Venezuela has not received any embargoes or sanctions from the US. If anything, the biggest financing source this government has had to prop up the disastrous economy are oil prices and the income they get from the US as the first buyer of venezuelan oil.

I would say that having one of the highest criminal rates in the world, highest inflation in the world, constant blackouts, constant basic products scarcity should be enough to make the electorate question their positions.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#34

Post by cgrubb »

stfu wrote: post #14

Yes, his is incredibly bad stuff. But let me put it into context: I would love to read a similar run down on what amount of money, intelligence and human resources the US has pured so far in the Venezuelan opposition. After the Cuban fiasco these actions became definitely less outrageous, but it seems save to assume that the US is not standing on the sidelines at election time in counties with a US critical governmen…

> I would love to read a similar run down on what amount of money, intelligence and human resources the US has pured so far in the Venezuelan opposition.

How much money is given to Venezuela is public.

http://gbk.eads.usaidallnet.gov/query/do?_program=/eads/gbk/...

It takes some time to make sense of this data. The funding agency and the implementing agency are usually the same. I personally am not familiar with some of the agencies, so I have to read about them on Wikipedia. The "funding account" seems illuminating. The "implementing partner" is I think who got the money in Venezuela, but all we get is the implementing partner "type".

All the same, it doesn't look to me as if any money is given to opposition political parties.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#35

Post by rayiner »

clicks wrote: post #26
rayiner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's because I'm on the fringe of what can be called millennial, but I don't see how sharing every little detail of your private life with your thousand closest Facebook friends shows a substantial concern for "privacy" as I understand the term.

If I was well-assured that if I participated in Facebook all of my posts, private messages, likes, etc. were truly private and would never ever be released to the gov't or any other entity in any way, ever, under no condition such that they could prove to be self-incriminating, I would use Facebook. But I know that isn't the case, and hasn't been the case for a long time, and thus I don't use Facebook nor have I ever…

Is something you share with hundreds of people "private" whether or not the government can see it?

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#36

Post by rayiner »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #27
rayiner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You always prepare for the last war you fought, but that's never what actually hits you.

But, surely you see the dissonance between your assertions that people's concerns over NSA-spying, etc. are irrational and the fact that you're worried about killer robots? I mean, if you believe that there are people with such an intent as to dominate us with technology, then why is it such a stretch to imagine that it's exactly what's happening now with the NSA? It would seem a little more practical for those megal…

I don't think people concerned about NSA spying are "irrational." I think they're overreacting, their fears are unlikely to come to pass, I think they're wrong about the scope of the 4th amendment, I think they're wrong about how much of the public shares their views, but I don't think they're "irrational."

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#37

Post by D9u »

...a man who is now in disgrace himself because, in a weird twist of fate, a recording of him was leaked and broadcast on TV. The irony! Live by the sword, die by the sword.

NSA = Nothing Sacred Anymore

One would think that with the past experiences of US President's wiretapping enemies and the resulting scandals, that the current administration would seek that fabled "moral high ground" and not stoop to such low levels.

However, at this point, Snowden doesn't really have too many options...

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#38

Post by kposehn »

alan_cx wrote: post #17
kposehn wrote: post #6

Excellent article. I would like to say that I was aware already of Venezuela's tactics, but I knew nothing until this article and the follow-up research I've done. Makes Snowden's choice seem rather odd/silly now.

And your sensible, viable alternative country is?

Iceland.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#39

Post by copx »

privong wrote: post #4
ianferrel wrote: post #2

This is terrible and it's good that it's seeing some press as a result of Snowden's plight. But the author tries to imply that Snowden is somehow approving of Venezuela's policies. Seeking asylum isn't an endorsement of Venezuela. It's a last-ditch-effort to stay free against government oppression.

> Seeking asylum isn't an endorsement of Venezuela. It's a last-ditch-effort to stay free against government oppression. It's not clear that jumping out of the pan and into the fire is the best option though.

Well, I sure would prefer Venezuela to receiving the Bradley Manning treatment.

I think Snowden would do a lot for his cause if he faced the Obama administration in court.

However, it's cheap to ask others to be martyrs. Can't really blame him for saying "Okay I risked a lot by leaking this but I am not going to spend the next 20 years in a cell if I can avoid it!"

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#40

Post by contingencies »

With regards to interpretation, which is clearly slanted in one direction here, just because Venezuala's government haven't yet secured their rule to the point where doing the surveillance in secret and neglecting the potential popular effect of leaking interceptions is politically viable, doesn't mean they're necessarily more of a surveillance state than the US, UK, or many others.

Perhaps it just makes them a more playful, immature and open version of a surveillance state. Sort of like the NSA's cutesie two year old puppy. (Meanwhile the US, Europe, the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and China gnash rabid teeth in the dog house proper - the sign above the door reading: "for grownups only".)

Post reply on HN