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Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

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Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#2
This is terrible and it's good that it's seeing some press as a result of Snowden's plight. But the author tries to imply that Snowden is somehow approving of Venezuela's policies.

Seeking asylum isn't an endorsement of Venezuela. It's a last-ditch-effort to stay free against government oppression.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#3
So in 20 years every country is going to be a surveillance state. How does this alter the sci-fi universe? Is every sci-fi novel taking place in the future going to have to be some spin-off of 1984 to maintain credulity? Did we all not want to hear that? Is there any room for alternate future visions of civilization given that they are all variations on a panopticon theme? Is this some sort of political singularity in the making?

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#4

This is terrible and it's good that it's seeing some press as a result of Snowden's plight. But the author tries to imply that Snowden is somehow approving of Venezuela's policies. Seeking asylum isn't an endorsement of Venezuela. It's a last-ditch-effort to stay free against government oppression.

> Seeking asylum isn't an endorsement of Venezuela. It's a last-ditch-effort to stay free against government oppression.

It's not clear that jumping out of the pan and into the fire is the best option though.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#5
post #3

So in 20 years every country is going to be a surveillance state. How does this alter the sci-fi universe? Is every sci-fi novel taking place in the future going to have to be some spin-off of 1984 to maintain credulity? Did we all not want to hear that? Is there any room for alternate future visions of civilization given that they are all variations on a panopticon theme? Is this some sort of political singularity i…

I think the tension between centralized panopticon infrastructure run/controlled by a power system that's trying to maintain control and the long-tailization, balkanization and echo-chamberization of the ideas that get spread across it will be a defining factor in the chaotic world we're moving into.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#7
This is only one story of the many, many times opponents to the Chavez and now Maduro government have been recorded, and exposed to public ridicule live on national TV by government sanctioned programs.

Hugo Chavez even used to call in and congratulate the guy that used to run La Hojilla. What more approval do you need than getting congratulated by the leader of the revolution!

During the last presidential election this guy even dragged out what he said was a statement by a former police officer that said the he caught Capriles (the opposing presidential candidate) fellating another guy in a car outside a house. I don't know if that statement was true or not, but it was constantly used to ridicule him live on TV.

My sister is friends with a girl who is married to a journalist. These guys hacked her e-mail and found some personal pictures of her in the beach with her husband and he showed them on national TV and exposed them to ridicule, saying that he was a cheapskate that wouldn't pay for his wife's boob job,etc.

Karma is a bitch though. The TV show is now cancelled because the guy used to report to his cuban minders in regular meetings that were recorded. Somehow one of these recordings was leaked and he was caught bad mouthing a ton of people in the government, including Cabello, the most powerful guy in the govt right now (even more than Maduro).

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#8
post #3

So in 20 years every country is going to be a surveillance state. How does this alter the sci-fi universe? Is every sci-fi novel taking place in the future going to have to be some spin-off of 1984 to maintain credulity? Did we all not want to hear that? Is there any room for alternate future visions of civilization given that they are all variations on a panopticon theme? Is this some sort of political singularity i…

There are more than a few steps from surveillance of Facebook accounts to Orwellian dystopia. There is more to 1984 than just surveillance (mind control, etc). Whether one leads inexorably to the other depends in large part on what you think of democracy. If you think that an educated people can be easily manipulated and controlled with doublespeak, as they are in 1984, then some sort of dystopia is likely, and frankly that's the case whether we have a surveillance state or not. If, on the other hand, you think people are mostly rational and capable of determining rationally what sort of world they want to live in, then that will always create a bulwark against tyranny.

I'm personally in the latter camp. I think that a generation of millennials, who don't particularly value privacy and don't see much wrong with the government monitoring certain communications when they voluntarily post every little detail of their lives on Facebook for hundreds or thousands of people to see, are still nonetheless rational people who will stand up against any infringement of the things they really care about: house and home, family, their means of making a living, etc.

My bigger concern is actually with regards to automation and robots. Despotic regimes depend on having military force. That is they only way they can suppress the will of the majority. But soldiers are just people, and pitting soldiers against their own countrymen is an unstable equilibrium in the long term. It's not sustainable in the face of actual public opposition. But automation and robots changes that equation. It makes it possible for a few to rule the many without relying on the inherently unstable situation of trying to keep hundreds of thousands or millions of soldiers loyal to the despots against their own families. To the extent that dystopia keeps me up at night, that's what I worry about, not surveillance.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#9
post #6

Excellent article. I would like to say that I was aware already of Venezuela's tactics, but I knew nothing until this article and the follow-up research I've done. Makes Snowden's choice seem rather odd/silly now.

Snowden didn't leave the US to escape surveillance (as he's made clear, that doesn't really help). He left to escape a lifetime in prison.

Re: Venezuela: My experience in the surveillance state

#10
post #4

This is terrible and it's good that it's seeing some press as a result of Snowden's plight. But the author tries to imply that Snowden is somehow approving of Venezuela's policies. Seeking asylum isn't an endorsement of Venezuela. It's a last-ditch-effort to stay free against government oppression.

> Seeking asylum isn't an endorsement of Venezuela. It's a last-ditch-effort to stay free against government oppression. It's not clear that jumping out of the pan and into the fire is the best option though.

I think most people would prefer the US's version of government oppression to Venezuela's, but might change their mind if they thought they were going to go away for long time if they stayed in the US.
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