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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#341

Post by vanderZwan »

baddox wrote: post #238
vanderZwan wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. Like I said in the other comment: a bike is never a threat to a car. A car is always a threat to a bike. While your points are valid, saying that that is looking at "both sides" is an inappropriate way of describing the situation.

By that logic, pedestrians should be able to walk in the middle of roads, since they're not a threat to a car.

You will need to explain how the fact that pedestrians are even less threatening and more vulnerable is the same as implying this gives them the right to walk on the middle of the road.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#342

Post by winterchil »

enraged_camel wrote: post #308
preinheimer wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a pedestrian, you terrify and bully me. As a driver managing turns, you're traveling at a very different speed than the people I'm expecting on the sidewalk which makes turning safely much more difficult.

>>As a pedestrian, you terrify and bully me. I clearly said I slow down or dismount when I'm near pedestrians. If you still feel terrified or bullied, I think that's a personal problem. >>As a driver managing turns, you're traveling at a very different speed than the people I'm expecting on the sidewalk which makes turning safely much more difficult. Bikers who do this deserve absolutely no sympathy. The safe thing t…

>> The safe thing to do when biking on sidewalks is to dismount as you arrive at an intersection

I think this is also the legally required thing to do in most jurisdictions.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#343

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

enraged_camel wrote: post #186
aqme28 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...it was intentionally blurred. If you watch through the video they explain that the police use the license plate to actually catch the guy.

I understand, and I suspected that. But still, I think the cyclist simply got lucky that he happened to catch the license plate on his camera. I mean, when you're falling off your bike, the last thing you're thinking about is to get a recording of the car.

Perhaps a bike or helmet with both front and rear camera sensors? That way you'll usually have some footage of the car's approach, though in low light it probably wouldn't help very much.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#344

Post by king_jester »

dllthomas wrote: post #204
matt__rose wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it can't. Not in any physical sense. If a car swerves and hits a cyclist at 30kph, the cyclist is almost certain to be injured, if not dead. If a bike swerves and hits a car, they might scratch the paint. When will the false equivalences end?

If a car swerves to avoid a cyclist and hits another car...

Then the car serves as the immediately threat to the other car, no the cyclist. This why you are supposed to drive defensively when operating a motor vehicle, so sudden changes in a situation doesn't cause you to crash into someone or something.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#345

Post by king_jester »

resu_nimda wrote: post #211
jberryman wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I can see both sides. This isn't a "on the one hand, on the other" issue. Even the most foolish and aggressive cyclist is almost never endangering the safety of drivers around him, even indirectly. Yet all it takes is a nudge, honk, door opening, unsignaled turn, etc. to kill a cyclist. Bicycle etiquette is for all practical purposes not a public safety issue, and IMHO responses of the "but bicyclists can be ru…

> Just because you perceive the public roads as "car roads" and driving as "normal" doesn't make it so Why not? The roads were built for cars. Driving on them isn't just "convenient," it's exactly what was intended to happen. Don't get me wrong, there should absolutely be more bike lanes and other considerations so that cyclists can travel safely. But, the infrastructure in its current state is definitely built aroun…

> Why not? The roads were built for cars.

It is amazing how the marketing of car culture change people's perception of this. No, roads were not developed for cars. Roads and streets where predominantly pedestrian avenues prior to motorized vehicles. Pedestrians, cyclists (when the bike was invented), horses, and trollies (again, when invented) all occupied streets and the space was considered public.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#346

Post by king_jester »

Terretta wrote: post #135
weland wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, when it comes to alcohol and, to some extent, tobacco, one can at least make the plea that most of the damage isn't external. I can't kill anyone other than myself if I drink too much, whereas if I'm speeding on the road, chances are I'm going to kill whatever I smash into, not only myself. Of course, there's the added penalty related to the social consequences of alcohol consumption (e.g. alienati…

> most of the damage isn't external There are real dollar costs to our overall quality of life from society's health self abuse expense. Excuse the graphic image, but a car accident is generally walk away or dead, while health care for the long term unhealthy keeps bleeding once it starts. "The motorist advocacy group AAA said accidents cost $164.2 billion each year, which based on the methodology used in the report…

> There are real dollar costs to our overall quality of life from society's health self abuse expense.

People are not obligated to be healthy or to have habits you consider healthy.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#347

Post by baddox »

vanderZwan wrote: post #341
baddox wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, pedestrians should be able to walk in the middle of roads, since they're not a threat to a car.

You will need to explain how the fact that pedestrians are even less threatening and more vulnerable is the same as implying this gives them the right to walk on the middle of the road.

I suspect that pedestrians are less threatening because they rarely walk in traffic (both because it's illegal, and because it's obviously dangerous). But for bicyclists, it's legal, and apparently the danger isn't enough to stop a lot of people.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#348

Post by alxndr »

beachstartup wrote: post #303
baddox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

anecdotally, i can't even remember the last time i saw a bicyclist stop at a stop sign. even the guys in their $10k road bikes and full outfits, who ostensibly take bicyclig VERY seriously, just blow through stop signs like they weren't even there. sometimes even stop LIGHTS if it's a t-stop. especially when they're riding in their large groups. and sometimes they even ride on the wrong side of the road (LOL) i live…

If we're going anecdotes, I can't remember the last time I saw a car stop at a stop sign either.

http://www.cyclelicio.us/2013/stop-sign-compliance-temecula-...

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#349

Post by opinali »

Amadou wrote: post #309
opinali wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving is legally defined as a privilege, just check your state's MVC guide.

Well, talk about moving the goal-posts, but you aren't the original poster so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The right to freedom of movement is not really a right if it does not include by all available means. For example, to say you have the right to walk from the east coast to the west coast but not the right to drive a car (or ride a train/bus/plane - all arguments that have been made post 9/11) means th…

Driving depends on a huge amount of infrastructure which is provided or controlled by the government, everything from roads to refined fuel. As far as I know you actually can drive a car without a license, if you do that in your private property (e.g. suppose you own a farm or other big property with internal driveways), but not in any public roads. Yeah we pay for the roads, and oil infrastructure and other things with our taxes... it doesn't matter. Google [is driving a privilege], you'll find citations of court decisions, some people have tried to assert their "right to drive" without success.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#350

Post by dllthomas »

alxndr wrote: post #340
dllthomas wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the parent's position, then I'm not sure I agree but I can't fault them for inconsistency. In an environment where many cars are traveling faster, though, it is nonetheless irresponsible and dangerous to others to ride a bike recklessly (or otherwise be unpredictable near fast-moving traffic).

I will agree that a relatively slow-moving bicycle on a road with fast-moving cars is indeed a dangerous situation for everyone. And I would agree that having similar speed vehicles together seems safer. However, in places with vehicles going differing speeds, I would put the onus of safety on the faster vehicles.

What was being discussed was cyclists behaving recklessly. Imagine a cyclist blowing through a red light at the bottom of a hill, where they're going ~20ish. Cross traffic with a green light isn't necessarily going to see them until the last minute even if the cross traffic is moving at an otherwise safe speed. Pay attention in a city for a while, and you'll see things like this, and it rightly pisses off both drivers and us other cyclists.
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