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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#301

Post by ajross »

kleinsch wrote: post #241
ajross wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't seem to be responsive. Your kids (or mine), no matter how heart-tugging a debate example they may be, will still be hurt less from a collision with a bicycle than the cyclist will be from a collision with my car. To argue otherwise, as Yver did above, is silly and counterproductive.

Arguing the degree of hurt is pointless - you can kill pedestrians if you hit them with your bike. http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2013/03/07/san-francisco-bicyc... http://dcist.com/2012/06/woman_dies_after_being_hit_by_cycli...

How, in an argument arguing for (or against) something based on the harm it can cause, is the "degree of hurt" "pointless". That makes even less sense than the original point I was responding to.

Clearly this is an issue of religion. If so, then just declare your side, sharpen your pitchfork and be done with it. But arguing as this thread does, that riding on the sidewalk for safety is "equally unsafe" needs to be done with evidence. It's certainly not true that the collisions are independently more dangerous. Maybe you could argue that there would be more of them or something.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#303

Post by beachstartup »

baddox wrote: post #102
oinksoft wrote: post #64

The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, they are given lip service at best in driver education and there is little attempt made at going after motorists who drive aggressively around them. As a result, you put yourself at great risk of life and limb when you ride on a road like this one: http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 (Hillandale Rd, Durham, NC) I accomplish all of my…

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

anecdotally, i can't even remember the last time i saw a bicyclist stop at a stop sign.

even the guys in their $10k road bikes and full outfits, who ostensibly take bicyclig VERY seriously, just blow through stop signs like they weren't even there. sometimes even stop LIGHTS if it's a t-stop.

especially when they're riding in their large groups. and sometimes they even ride on the wrong side of the road (LOL)

i live in santa monica, maybe it's especially bad here.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#304

Post by bagels »

baddox wrote: post #269
kylec wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Seth Vidal is dead, and the driver remains alive. In an ideal world bicycles are given equal respect and stature on the roads. In practice, however, riders have a lot more to lose in a collision with a car.

> In an ideal world bicycles are given equal respect and stature on the roads. Since you mentioned "an ideal world," I'm going to completely disagree. I think that bicycles and automobiles sharing roads is, at best, a manageable but extremely dangerous situation. Like it or not, bicycles and automobiles behave very differently, and require their surrounding vehicles to behave very differently. In an ideal world, ther…

Excepting of course, the millions of intersections and driveways. You know, besides those.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#305

Post by mlbmlb »

alxndr wrote: post #237
resu_nimda wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because you perceive the public roads as "car roads" and driving as "normal" doesn't make it so Why not? The roads were built for cars. Driving on them isn't just "convenient," it's exactly what was intended to happen. Don't get me wrong, there should absolutely be more bike lanes and other considerations so that cyclists can travel safely. But, the infrastructure in its current state is definitely built aroun…

> The roads were built for cars. This is untrue. "The coming of the railways in the 1830s killed off the stage-coach trade; almost all rural roads reverted to low-level local use. Cyclists were the first group in a generation to use roads and were the first to push for high-quality sealed surfaces and were the first to lobby for national funding and leadership for roads. Without cyclists, motorists wouldn't have hit…

Because the majority of roads nowadays in use were built in 1830... /sarcasm

Here, even 70 years ago, several roads were just a dusty path through fields and many of them didn't exist yet. When they were actually built as a road, it was done for cars, buses, trucks and it was done from steep consumption taxes on gas and later from country-wide toll imposed on cars.

Of course, YMMV in your country. But I really think that you didn't have asphalt-paved 10 m wide roads 180 years ago.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#306

Post by dllthomas »

PetrolMan wrote: post #227
jberryman wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I can see both sides. This isn't a "on the one hand, on the other" issue. Even the most foolish and aggressive cyclist is almost never endangering the safety of drivers around him, even indirectly. Yet all it takes is a nudge, honk, door opening, unsignaled turn, etc. to kill a cyclist. Bicycle etiquette is for all practical purposes not a public safety issue, and IMHO responses of the "but bicyclists can be ru…

Bike lanes apparently don't help as much as you'd think. There is a psychological aspect to providing a bike lane that makes car drivers think that bikers are already protected by the lane, meaning, in the end, that they don't actually give bikers as much room. Edit: Bike lanes increase safety but I just added it to point out that it's a relatively complicated situation. I think lower speeds were the biggest factor t…

The worst is bike lanes painted such that you can only be in them by riding in the door-zone. Fortunately, those seem to be going away.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#307

Post by ethomson »

baddox wrote: post #260
yebyen wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live? There aren't even any roads with speed limits Especially in the city, it's prohibited to ride on the sidewalk; you must use the street even where there are no specially marked bike lanes. So, what you propose seems particularly outrageous to me; the only remaining options to get around the city would be having a car or using public transportation (or going on foot.)

> What you're proposing up here would mean banning bicycles on all but specially marked bicycle paths. Well, think about it this way. Why are pedestrians banned from walking on roads, even when there are no nearby sidewalks? The answer, I believe, is that it's extremely dangerous, both to the pedestrian and to automobile drivers, and that it would cause massive inefficiency in the flow of traffic. The reality is that…

Can you cite this? Because it's certainly legal for pedestrians to use the roads in my state, sidewalk or no.

There's no massive inefficiency, the cars pass the pedestrians, the cyclists, the skateboarders and all the other road users, when safe to do so, just like the law says they should.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#308

Post by enraged_camel »

preinheimer wrote: post #100
enraged_camel wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only ride my bike on dedicated bike lanes (by "dedicated" I mean those blocked from the main road) and bike paths. Everywhere else, I ride on the sidewalk. Fortunately, most sidewalks where I live are sparsely populated, and I make sure to slow down to walking speed or dismount completely when going through areas with lots of pedestrians. Someone told me I could get cited for riding my bike on a sidewalk. Fuck that…

As a pedestrian, you terrify and bully me. As a driver managing turns, you're traveling at a very different speed than the people I'm expecting on the sidewalk which makes turning safely much more difficult.

>>As a pedestrian, you terrify and bully me.

I clearly said I slow down or dismount when I'm near pedestrians. If you still feel terrified or bullied, I think that's a personal problem.

>>As a driver managing turns, you're traveling at a very different speed than the people I'm expecting on the sidewalk which makes turning safely much more difficult.

Bikers who do this deserve absolutely no sympathy. The safe thing to do when biking on sidewalks is to dismount as you arrive at an intersection, even if the pedestrian light is green. Then you cross the intersection as a pedestrian, i.e. by walking.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#309

Post by Amadou »

opinali wrote: post #289
Amadou wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. If that was a sound argument, then one could say that the right to own a firearm is really just a privilege because most states require a license to own a firearm which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Or similarly that the right to vote is just a privilege because yo…

Driving is legally defined as a privilege, just check your state's MVC guide.

Well, talk about moving the goal-posts, but you aren't the original poster so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

The right to freedom of movement is not really a right if it does not include by all available means.

For example, to say you have the right to walk from the east coast to the west coast but not the right to drive a car (or ride a train/bus/plane - all arguments that have been made post 9/11) means that you de facto do not have the right to travel from the east coast to the west coast because it is impractical for the vast majority of the population to walk it.

I'm sure there are motor vehicle codes that have adopted the language of privilege rather than right if for no other reason than it makes it easier for them to claim that moral authority later on, but that doesn't make it true in the sense of natural law. Government does not grant people privileges because everything the government does comes from the people to begin with.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#310

Post by tptacek »

oinksoft wrote: post #275
tptacek wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The accident apparently occurred after dark, when a driver swerved off the road to avoid traffic and ran into Seth’s bike from behind".

Neither source says that the car went off-road though. They just say that the driver braked suddenly and then swerved.

Since we're not actually litigating this issue I'm content to take the announcement at its word.
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