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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#271

Post by marssaxman »

oinksoft wrote: post #118
baddox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

I think that a cyclist flaunting traffic laws should always be liable for accidents, but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. Any city that has resources for this ought to take a hard look at the size of their police force. Your idea of banning cycle traffic on >25mph roads is misguided. Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greate…

Perhaps you are correct, and average bicyclists have no trouble traveling at speeds greater than 25 mph, but for some reason they rarely choose to exercise that ability. 10-15 mph seems to be more usual, and 5 mph is not uncommon here in hilly Seattle. Maybe they get going out on the Burke-Gilman bike trail, but they certainly aren't going anything like 25 mph on the streets I share with them.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#272

Post by walshemj »

untog wrote: post #198
drumdance wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a middle ground. In Boulder at least, a bicyclist can be ticketed for running a red light, going the wrong way on one-way etc.

There needs to be more of this. As a relatively new biker in NYC (since the bike sharing program launched) I've been amazed at the suicidal tendencies of my (non-bike share) brethren. At a red light? Just pedal out into the middle of the road to see if you can cross anyway. Going the wrong way? Sure!

You should see the nutters on fix wheeled bikes in London I have seen so many that blast through major junctions dodging between pedestrians.

Try watching the junctions around Holbourn tube station and you will see several in a few minuets.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#273

Post by alxndr »

dllthomas wrote: post #251
alxndr wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...both car's passengers are surrounded by a metal cage that is trying to protect lives.

Are you being deliberately daft? Yes, the people in the cars are safer than a reckless person on a bicycle, but that doesn't mean the bicyclist isn't still putting them in some danger - those metal cages don't always succeed - as well as putting pedestrians and other bicyclists in more significant danger.

Okay, a reckless cyclist can put a driver in some danger, if the driver is going fast enough that the car can't be stopped quickly enough to avoid either hitting the cyclist or swerving into an oncoming lane.

However, in this constructed situation, it seems to me that the driver is being more unsafe by driving that fast.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#274

Post by curveship »

colanderman wrote: post #166
gamache wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's appropriate to consider bicycles as "first-class vehicles" in all situations, namely in the dangerous situations you list (speed limits >~25mph, multiple automobile lanes, etc.). Driving a motor vehicle on a road is a privilege. This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public…

> Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public road is a right. That's a bold claim. Citation?

NC General Statute 20-4.01 (49) defines a bicycle as a vehicle with the same rights and responsibilities as other vehicles:

"bicycles shall be deemed vehicles and every rider of a bicycle upon a highway shall be subject to the provisions of this Chapter applicable to the driver of a vehicle"

source: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/...

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#275

Post by oinksoft »

tptacek wrote: post #264
oinksoft wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't intend to highlight lack of respect so much as lack of general awareness amongst motorists of the rights of bicyclists as road vehicles. In the worst cases, this manifests itself in more aggressive responses. This here was a case of negligence, not malice. Neither source linked from the article says that the driver went off-road, both say that Seth Vidal was traveling "on Hillandale Road," that he was "a bic…

"The accident apparently occurred after dark, when a driver swerved off the road to avoid traffic and ran into Seth’s bike from behind".

Neither source says that the car went off-road though. They just say that the driver braked suddenly and then swerved.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#276

Post by clarky07 »

oinksoft wrote: post #182
clarky07 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

considering the amount of people biking vs the amount of people in cars, I'd guess that biking is the far more dangerous mode of transport. According to this site [1], biking accounts for 1% of trips, but 2% of traffic fatalities. [1] - http://www.bicyclinginfo.org/facts/crash-facts.cfm

You might find this interesting: UK figures show that it takes at least 8000 years of average cycling to produce one clinically severe head injury and 22,000 years for one death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Health_benefits...

So? From the cited article giving that stat - "a mile of driving is ten times safer than a mile of cycling".

You might argue that cycling is safe. You can't argue that it is safer. It simply isn't.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#277

Post by walshemj »

aroch wrote: post #128
oinksoft wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that a cyclist flaunting traffic laws should always be liable for accidents, but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. Any city that has resources for this ought to take a hard look at the size of their police force. Your idea of banning cycle traffic on >25mph roads is misguided. Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greate…

>Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greater than 25mph, even uphill I doubt that, maybe in burst/sprint but not sustained...Hell, the average top speeds in the Tour de France during the sprints is barely 25mph and those are top athletes. >but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. So we should enforce traffic laws on cars but not…

In todays (stage 10) the ITV4 coverage (Chris Bordman ) said they where hitting 65-70kph at today's finish which is over 40Mph

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#278

Post by thwest »

jlgreco wrote: post #107
thwest wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinking is a significant cause of death among non-addicts. Addicts are a small portion of consumers. Addicts are the exceptional case here.

I am willing to wager that there are more alcohol related deaths involving chronic drinkers than there are binging college students who forget to vomit. We've just termed those deaths "acceptable" or pretend that they are "natural causes" because the victims tend to be in the second half of an expected lifespan.

Well, I'm curious what the numbers actually are. Either way about it, I agree we should fight for addicts. I've lost two dear people to alcohol, and I'm fighting for a third right now.

However, other than increased mental health care funding I struggle to imagine what governmental policy would have helped those I've lost. A sin tax would have done nothing for these people (hell, prohibition wouldn't have worked either).

Legislating 1 meter barriers between auto and bicycle traffic is incredibly simple compared to attempting to legislate the psycho-social forces of addiction. We don't have to limit our social change to legislation but that's the mindset from first reply was made in.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#279

Post by Amadou »

gamache wrote: post #144
baddox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

I don't think it's appropriate to consider bicycles as "first-class vehicles" in all situations, namely in the dangerous situations you list (speed limits >~25mph, multiple automobile lanes, etc.). Driving a motor vehicle on a road is a privilege. This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public…

> This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons.

If that was a sound argument, then one could say that the right to own a firearm is really just a privilege because most states require a license to own a firearm which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Or similarly that the right to vote is just a privilege because you must register and there are a variety of reasons for the state to revoke it.

Just because a right is regulated does not make it a privilege.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#280

Post by chollida1 »

oinksoft wrote: post #118
baddox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

I think that a cyclist flaunting traffic laws should always be liable for accidents, but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. Any city that has resources for this ought to take a hard look at the size of their police force. Your idea of banning cycle traffic on >25mph roads is misguided. Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greate…

I'm not sure if your joking but I'll bite:)

> Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greater than 25mph, even uphill.

The average speed of the tour de france winners now is only about 25mph and that is very heavily drug assisted;)

http://bikeraceinfo.com/tdf/tdfstats.html

Given this I can't really take your statement as a serious one:)

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