Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident • Hacker News Board

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#161

Post by malandrew » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:13 PM UTC

xanderstrike wrote: post #60

danso wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fatal vehicle accidents are not always vehicular homicide/manslaughter. A standard of negligence (such as being past the DUI limit) has to be established. Hit-and-run also does not necessarily result in a homicide (or assault) charge being filed.

Someone struck him with a car and killed him. I think leaving the scene after killing someone with a vehicle should satisfy any any standard of negligence.

If is was a hit and run, then negligence shouldn't even be an issue anymore. A hit and run should automatically be escalated to homicide.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#162

Post by clarky07 » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:13 PM UTC

oinksoft wrote: post #145

aroch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greater than 25mph, even uphill I doubt that, maybe in burst/sprint but not sustained...Hell, the average top speeds in the Tour de France during the sprints is barely 25mph and those are top athletes. >but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. So we should enforce traffic laws on cars but not…

You're right, there are lots of slow cyclists who seldom top 15mph. Nevertheless, the speed limit is a speed limit, and if I can manage 25mph on a 35mph road, I don't see the issue. Mixed-use roads that see cyclists clogging traffic should provide simple painted bike lanes if nothing else. So we should enforce traffic laws on cars but not on bicycles? That's fairly myopic... Fewer than 1000 people die in bicycle acci…

considering the amount of people biking vs the amount of people in cars, I'd guess that biking is the far more dangerous mode of transport.

According to this site [1], biking accounts for 1% of trips, but 2% of traffic fatalities.

[1] - http://www.bicyclinginfo.org/facts/crash-facts.cfm

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#163

Post by CamperBob2 » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:13 PM UTC

oinksoft wrote: post #118

baddox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

I think that a cyclist flaunting traffic laws should always be liable for accidents, but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. Any city that has resources for this ought to take a hard look at the size of their police force. Your idea of banning cycle traffic on >25mph roads is misguided. Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greate…

Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greater than 25mph, even uphill.

Most cyclists in the TdF, maybe. 25 mph is quite fast on a bicycle.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#164

Post by caycep » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:14 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #142

malandrew wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, according to CSC 21202, the bicyclist is allowed full use of lanes. The important clause to pay attention to is clause (c). The most important part of that clause is the use of the term "substandard width lane", which although not defined in the statute, has been established via jurisprudence to be approximately 14-15 ft. Many many rightmost lanes in SF are not 14+ ft wide, meaning that on most road…

Santa Monica has the same rules. I biked to worked for two months straight, my car never left the garage until one day someone didn't like the fact i was in the middle of the lane. Accelerated at me, and then tried to run me off the road at 35+ mph on a small street. Tired of people honking at me or cutting me off so i quit riding my bike. Not worth my life. City really needs to take every 4th or 5th street and make…

that sounds illegal - could you have reported his license? Something under assault using a vehicle or attempted manslaughter?

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#165

Post by jberryman » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:14 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #102

oinksoft wrote: post #64

The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, they are given lip service at best in driver education and there is little attempt made at going after motorists who drive aggressively around them. As a result, you put yourself at great risk of life and limb when you ride on a road like this one: http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 (Hillandale Rd, Durham, NC) I accomplish all of my…

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

> but I can see both sides.

This isn't a "on the one hand, on the other" issue. Even the most foolish and aggressive cyclist is almost never endangering the safety of drivers around him, even indirectly. Yet all it takes is a nudge, honk, door opening, unsignaled turn, etc. to kill a cyclist.

Bicycle etiquette is for all practical purposes not a public safety issue, and IMHO responses of the "but bicyclists can be rude" variety to incidents like these only help perpetuate a driving culture aggressive to cyclists.

> In those situations, I think it's reasonable to ban bicyclists outright

Why not lower the speed limit, or add a bike lane? Just because you perceive the public roads as "car roads" and driving as "normal" doesn't make it so, and I don't think your convenience should trump someone's basic ability to get around.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#166

Post by colanderman » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:14 PM UTC

gamache wrote: post #144

baddox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, I tend to agree, but I can see both sides. There is also very little (and, as far as I know, zero required) bicyclist education, and many bicyclists make little attempt to drive predictably and safely either out of boldness or ignorance. Similarly, while stricter rules and enforcement for automobile drivers is warranted, I think the same goes for…

I don't think it's appropriate to consider bicycles as "first-class vehicles" in all situations, namely in the dangerous situations you list (speed limits >~25mph, multiple automobile lanes, etc.). Driving a motor vehicle on a road is a privilege. This privilege is represented by a motor vehicle operator's license, which may be revoked by the state for a variety of reasons. Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public…

> Riding a bicycle on a non-Interstate public road is a right.

That's a bold claim. Citation?

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#167

Post by mistercow » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:16 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #126

Yver wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also injure a pedestrian. Do you realize that you can hurt an elderly person on the sidewalk with a bike as much as a car can hurt you on the road?

You can surely hurt a pedestrian while riding on the sidewalk (or through a crosswalk, for that matter). You surely can not hurt them "as much as" a car in the traffic lanes will hurt a cyclist in a much faster collision with a much heavier object. That assertion is just silly.

Yver did say "elderly person". It seems pretty likely that you could kill a sufficiently elderly person by hitting them with a bicycle, which seems "as much as" you can hurt someone with a car.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#168

Post by Zikes » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:16 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #138

eddieroger wrote: post #63

It's a shame that this has to turn from a really sad event to another bikes versus car debate, especially with so little information available other than it was a hit and run.

On HN as on any forum (or where people get together and discuss something that just happened) that is what happens . The event is merely a spark for a discussion. Would it be better if all you saw was a string of "sorry to hear that" type responses (similar to a guest book in a funeral home). My opinion is no, I like the discussion.

It would be more appropriate to share stories of our personal interactions with the deceased and to discuss their contributions to the world.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#169

Post by aroch » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:16 PM UTC

oinksoft wrote: post #145

aroch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most cyclists have no trouble traveling at a speed greater than 25mph, even uphill I doubt that, maybe in burst/sprint but not sustained...Hell, the average top speeds in the Tour de France during the sprints is barely 25mph and those are top athletes. >but the last thing we need if we want to encourage bicycling is nanny-state policing of proper signaling and such. So we should enforce traffic laws on cars but not…

You're right, there are lots of slow cyclists who seldom top 15mph. Nevertheless, the speed limit is a speed limit, and if I can manage 25mph on a 35mph road, I don't see the issue. Mixed-use roads that see cyclists clogging traffic should provide simple painted bike lanes if nothing else. So we should enforce traffic laws on cars but not on bicycles? That's fairly myopic... Fewer than 1000 people die in bicycle acci…

If it's not comparable, why are you complaining? Why should I have to respect you more than a car if you're not at any real risk of death? Seems like more effort than its worth, after all I don't really value your life at anything over 0.

Fewer than 2000 people die in plane crashes every year, despite the millions who fly. So I suppose we shouldn't make them follow any rules or safety procedures either, I mean it isn't as if those rules have prevented any deaths. Right?

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#170

Post by revelation » Tue, Jul 09, 2013, 7:19 PM UTC

bjterry wrote: post #136

malandrew wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, according to CSC 21202, the bicyclist is allowed full use of lanes. The important clause to pay attention to is clause (c). The most important part of that clause is the use of the term "substandard width lane", which although not defined in the statute, has been established via jurisprudence to be approximately 14-15 ft. Many many rightmost lanes in SF are not 14+ ft wide, meaning that on most road…

If you wait until 5 cars are backed up behind you, you could be incredibly rude to 4 vehicles of people. You should be considerate and allow vehicles to pass after a reasonable amount of time (i.e. as dictated by courtesy and not the law) and when it's safe to do so.

You don't seem to understand. Cars can not legally pass bicycles and stay in a single lane. The math does not work out when you take into consideration that bicycles need to keep a greater distance to the right to avoid morons who open doors into traffic and that, having only two wheels, they will naturally swerve left and right, and often do so on purpose to avoid the various pitfalls that are not maintained roads, where a light hit to the suspension on a normal car can dead stop your wheel and send you flying.