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Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

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Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#131

Post by ArbitraryCrow »

oinksoft wrote: post #122
aroch wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same token, many bicyclists freely ignore traffic laws too. They don't properly stop at stop signs or intersections (on red or yellow) and they act like pedestrians when it suits them. >[Slam] their brakes without noticing my bike behind them You're a vehicle when you ride on the streets, it's your responsibility to maintain a safe distance from the person in front of you and to react to their brake lights. Th…

That's not true. If I'm a motorist, moving at speed, and I slam my brakes to grab that nifty parking spot, I am liable. Not the person who rear-ends me.

Not in my jurisdiction. You're responsible for maintaining a safe distance to the vehicle in front of you, to allow for unexpected stops. It doesn't matter if they stop for a cat, a toddler, or hallucinated giant killer marmosets from outer space.

As far as I know, this is standard in driving laws across the U.S. Is there somewhere this doesn't apply?

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#132

Post by mh- »

_delirium wrote: post #58
hillbillyjack wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without living in the US it is hard for you to come up with a valid argument against prioritizing automobile infrastructure. Population density alone makes it an issue outside of large cities like New York, because of that you'll also find most cities have pretty lackluster public transportation. It is tragic that people are hurt and worse because of automobiles but they are a fact of life in America and cyclists are…

> Without living in the US it is hard for you to come up with a valid argument against prioritizing automobile infrastructure. I'm American, and have lived in the U.S. for about 90% of my life, so I'm pretty familiar with the issues. Even leaving aside major change, and just taking cities as they exist today, pedestrian/bicyclist access and safety is just not prioritized even within cities. I lived in midtown Atlanta…

in short: you're (incorrectly) extrapolating what you know about one midsized city to the rest of the US.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#133

Post by aroch »

oinksoft wrote: post #122
aroch wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same token, many bicyclists freely ignore traffic laws too. They don't properly stop at stop signs or intersections (on red or yellow) and they act like pedestrians when it suits them. >[Slam] their brakes without noticing my bike behind them You're a vehicle when you ride on the streets, it's your responsibility to maintain a safe distance from the person in front of you and to react to their brake lights. Th…

That's not true. If I'm a motorist, moving at speed, and I slam my brakes to grab that nifty parking spot, I am liable. Not the person who rear-ends me.

If you're a motorist at speed (and I'll take "at speed" to mean normal street speed); you're almost probably not looking for a parking spot. Further, if you're going "at speed" --25-35mph -- the person behind you should be, at minimum, 2-3 car lengths behind you. If they aren't, they're failing to maintain a safe distance. You're not liable if the person behind you, driving unsafely, rear-ends you.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#134

Post by jlgreco »

chrischen wrote: post #19
_delirium wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was killed by an automobile driver. The U.S. is notorious [1] for bicyclists (and pedestrians) being hit by cars at a relatively high rate, because it prioritizes automobile infrastructure and speed (and culture) over bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure/accessibility/safety. [1] Not to say it's the worst, just relatively bad for an advanced country.

You've never been to China then. I've never been to any country where the drivers are more courteous to pedestrians than the USA.

Drivers are courteous to pedestrians to a fault in the north-west US.

Sometimes several times a day I will be approaching (as a pedestrian) an intersection (double stop-sign), say 10 to 15 feet away, and a car will stop and refuse to move until I reach the intersection, step into it, and fully cross it.

Contrast this with the east coast where a car will stop and pause for one second. If after that second nobody is in the crosswalk, they will continue. This allows pedestrians to comfortably stand in the general area of intersections without feeling as though they are holding up traffic. It also allows considerate pedestrians, like I consider myself, to allow a car to continue first (I often (try to) do this when I notice that a car has waited for several pedestrians already by the time I arrive). It also allows cautious pedestrians (as I am) to courteously opt-out of stepping in front of a car that seems impatient but begrudgingly stopped, or cars that appear distracted.

It drives me crazy. It reminds me of my mother/aunts all arguing that they should be the one that pays for everyone's meal; trying to be "polite" but ultimately just making the situation worse for no reason. Absolutely maddening. Cars and pedestrians should have a safe but adversarial attitude towards each other, it just makes everything run smoother for everybody involved.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#135

Post by Terretta »

weland wrote: post #65
Terretta wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the day after we stop tolerating the even more egregious waste of life that occurs every day from mass over consumption of alcohol, tobacco, and, well, food.[1] Accidents are only 7th in the top 10 killers, and automobile accidents are a fraction of that category[2]. If we want to tackle major causes of death, this is the place to start: 1. http://www.policymic.com/articles/24365/9-leading-causes-of-... 2. h…

On the other hand, when it comes to alcohol and, to some extent, tobacco, one can at least make the plea that most of the damage isn't external. I can't kill anyone other than myself if I drink too much, whereas if I'm speeding on the road, chances are I'm going to kill whatever I smash into, not only myself. Of course, there's the added penalty related to the social consequences of alcohol consumption (e.g. alienati…

> most of the damage isn't external

There are real dollar costs to our overall quality of life from society's health self abuse expense. Excuse the graphic image, but a car accident is generally walk away or dead, while health care for the long term unhealthy keeps bleeding once it starts.

"The motorist advocacy group AAA said accidents cost $164.2 billion each year, which based on the methodology used in the report comes to an annual per person cost of $1,051." (2008)

By comparison, some other systemic costs:

- $190 billion in annual medical costs due to obesity (2012)

- CDC reports excessive alcohol consumption cost the U.S. $224 billion (2006)

- Total annual public and private health care expenditures caused by smoking: $96 billion

- Taxpayers yearly fed/state tax burden from smoking-caused gov’t spending: $70.7 billion

- Productivity losses caused by smoking each year: $97 billion

Obesity alone or alcohol alone cost us all more than accidents. I for one have other "quality of life" things I'd like to do with my money than subsidize "self destructive" choice.

> I passionately hate people who absolutely have to drive their cars

I clock under 4K miles a year, mostly long distance trips with four or more passengers. But I'm fortunate enough to live near NYC and use public transportation. It's a lot harder in most of the US. Comparing communities across the US and Europe, it seems the best way to affect driving culture is with community layouts that put food (groceries and restaurants) within easy walking distance.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#136

Post by bjterry »

malandrew wrote: post #117
oinksoft wrote: post #64

The sad truth is that while bicycles should be respected as vehicles, they are given lip service at best in driver education and there is little attempt made at going after motorists who drive aggressively around them. As a result, you put yourself at great risk of life and limb when you ride on a road like this one: http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=6-LvU0mhA3 (Hillandale Rd, Durham, NC) I accomplish all of my…

In San Francisco, according to CSC 21202, the bicyclist is allowed full use of lanes. The important clause to pay attention to is clause (c). The most important part of that clause is the use of the term "substandard width lane", which although not defined in the statute, has been established via jurisprudence to be approximately 14-15 ft. Many many rightmost lanes in SF are not 14+ ft wide, meaning that on most road…

If you wait until 5 cars are backed up behind you, you could be incredibly rude to 4 vehicles of people. You should be considerate and allow vehicles to pass after a reasonable amount of time (i.e. as dictated by courtesy and not the law) and when it's safe to do so.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#137

Post by malandrew »

oinksoft wrote: post #103
enraged_camel wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only ride my bike on dedicated bike lanes (by "dedicated" I mean those blocked from the main road) and bike paths. Everywhere else, I ride on the sidewalk. Fortunately, most sidewalks where I live are sparsely populated, and I make sure to slow down to walking speed or dismount completely when going through areas with lots of pedestrians. Someone told me I could get cited for riding my bike on a sidewalk. Fuck that…

I see your point. If the speed limits are not too high though, you might want to try riding on the roads and using some tactics that help me (at least): * If you hear a car coming up on you, always turn your head and look back at the car so that they know you see them and because faces command attention. This quick look also gives you an idea of how much the driver notices you, that is, if you have to bail in a hurry…

Upvote for staying near the center of the road, but remember that that is only permitted on 14-15+ ft wide lanes (don't worry, the overwhelming majority of city lanes are not this wide). If the lane is wider than that, you should stay to the right (but you are within your right to stay outside the door zone)

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#138

Post by larrys »

eddieroger wrote: post #63

It's a shame that this has to turn from a really sad event to another bikes versus car debate, especially with so little information available other than it was a hit and run.

On HN as on any forum (or where people get together and discuss something that just happened) that is what happens.

The event is merely a spark for a discussion.

Would it be better if all you saw was a string of "sorry to hear that" type responses (similar to a guest book in a funeral home). My opinion is no, I like the discussion.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#139

Post by discostrings »

oinksoft wrote: post #122
aroch wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same token, many bicyclists freely ignore traffic laws too. They don't properly stop at stop signs or intersections (on red or yellow) and they act like pedestrians when it suits them. >[Slam] their brakes without noticing my bike behind them You're a vehicle when you ride on the streets, it's your responsibility to maintain a safe distance from the person in front of you and to react to their brake lights. Th…

That's not true. If I'm a motorist, moving at speed, and I slam my brakes to grab that nifty parking spot, I am liable. Not the person who rear-ends me.

In every U.S. jurisdiction I'm familiar with, the person doing the rear-ending is liable, not the person who brakes unexpectedly. The idea is that everyone should leave stopping distance. In heavy traffic, people generally don't leave this distance, but it's still the law.

Re: Seth Vidal, creator of yum, killed in hit and run accident

#140

Post by digismack »

oinksoft wrote: post #122
aroch wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same token, many bicyclists freely ignore traffic laws too. They don't properly stop at stop signs or intersections (on red or yellow) and they act like pedestrians when it suits them. >[Slam] their brakes without noticing my bike behind them You're a vehicle when you ride on the streets, it's your responsibility to maintain a safe distance from the person in front of you and to react to their brake lights. Th…

That's not true. If I'm a motorist, moving at speed, and I slam my brakes to grab that nifty parking spot, I am liable. Not the person who rear-ends me.

What jurisdiction do you live? Everywhere I have ever lived if a vehicle hits you from behind, it's their fault, period.
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